Sherlock Lives

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Darkobra
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Darkobra » 11 Jan 2014, 14:34

Better than turning myself bipolar and being both Sherlock and Watson. It sucks arguing with myself. I can never seem to win. I'm just too witty.

You're in.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 11 Jan 2014, 14:37

Woo! One thing though- I study engineering not medicine, so I'll be useless at telling you about the body and fantastic at telling you the flexural modulus of bone.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Darkobra » 11 Jan 2014, 14:51

I got the medicine covered. In a bottle. Of whiskey.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 11 Jan 2014, 15:10

Lagavulin or Laphroaig?
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Darkobra » 11 Jan 2014, 15:20

Out of the two, I've only tried Lagavulin. One of my friends carries a collection of very fine whiskies and he makes me try them all. Consecutively. Without so much as a pause for breath.

"Try that one! Now that one!"
"Ah've not even fuckin' SWALLOWED that one yet!"
"Nae time! Drink! Now that one! And when ye finish that yeen, ah've got maer fur ye to swallae!"

Then he asks me what I think of them all like I've had time to remember most of them.

Lagavulin was alright! I gotta try Laphoroaig.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby viscomica » 11 Jan 2014, 15:23

My pseudonym is Ix wrote:
viscomica wrote:Well, I don't know... it is a retelling after all. And I think we owe that to Conan Doyle, to respect his character as he thought him to be. Sherlock being Sherlock is what I like and enjoy most about the series, and pushing so many changes and not solving the case until way past half the episode is unacceptable to me. Sorry folks, just not my cup of tea.


Conan Doyle's Sherlock is the product of a fan fiction- a superhuman with the mental alacrity of 12 Stephen Hawkings and a Richard Feynman or two, almost inhuman physical strength, great charm and zero flaws worth speaking of (bar his tendency to get high every once in a while). In the same token, John Watson is an empty blank of a character with almost no personality of his own whose essential sole focus is to act as narrator. Characters like Mary and Mrs. Hudson barely exist, Lestrade and the other detectives are completely interchangeable- in short, characterisation was never the strong suit of the original. The thing that made Sherlock Holmes so popular was his deductions, the part of him that was generally superhuman, but attempting to directly translate the original character into a TV/film format has been tried several times and was never particularly interesting.

The thing that has made both this reimagining (and, indeed, Guy Ritchie's recent film version to a somewhat lesser extent) so compelling to watch has been the changes that Gatiss, Moffat & Co. have applied to the characters involved. They have given Sherlock weaknesses, which made the contrast between him and Watson in the first series so endlessly watchable, and they have given his character somewhere to go, providing a character development arc that prevented the second series just being a repeat of the first. If this version attempted to ape the original, every episodes would be 40 minutes of setup and exposition, 20 minutes of action followed by a half-hour lecture from Holmes of 'how I solved it aren't I brilliant'. This, to me at least, is simply not as compelling as investigating the characters that the reimagining has made so genuinely interesting and engaging to watch, and now the brilliant deduction and mental acrobatics of his cases has a solid base from which to be as appreciably awesome as it always was.

That was why I liked the most recent episode- partly it was refreshing, a change from the norm that prevented either becoming predictable or stagnant. It was also genuinely funny. But what was really nice was seeing all the development in Sherlock's character over the past two series' genuinely pay off. We see a character who has been shaped by his experiences, is genuinely struggling to make something he would instinctively consider stupid and sentimental work for somebody he genuinely cares about in a way he never thought he would. I'm not saying I want this from every episode, and frankly I'm looking forward to a good 'epic case' for him to work through next time, but I feel it is unfair to dismiss the episode for being 'un-Sherlocky'. Yes it was- but it was good precisely because of all these un-Sherlocky things.

Ahem.


I don't mind the portrayals of other characters. In fact, I love them, as I see that they contribute a lot to the story and the series wouldn't work for me otherwise. But when it comes to Sherlock, I don't ever strive to relate to him or see him as a fellow human being but as an asshole who, coincidentally is really really smart and can solve anything that's presented to him in a given case. I just don't and never will like other Sherlock. I will assume it's just not Sherlock anymore. Conan Doyle didn't characterise well other characters but Sherlock was a piece of work. He dedicated a lot to that character and his deductions. I think it would be unfair to twist the personality of the main character in a way that the essential things about him would not be there anymore. The main thing about Sherlock is not only his deductions, but his lack of humanity in certain aspects and his remarkable intelligence and pride. At least, that's how I see it, of course.
Also you said that because of the three things you mentioned it "is" a good episode.I think that is a very subjective appreciation, different people might like it or not like it. When it comes to taste you can never be right or wrong. Like I said, I didn't like it, but that doesn't make it a bad episode or a good one, just that it's not my cup of tea.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Darkobra » 11 Jan 2014, 15:35

I personally believe that these new traits of Sherlock make it very worth watching. He knows he lacks humanity but Watson made him want to try to fit in. "I solved a murder, he saved a life." They bounce off each other, they admire each other.

Sherlock makes Watson want to go out and solve cases. He makes Watson want to learn more, see what he sees and understand the world that he's been blind to all his life.

Watson makes Sherlock want to see a different world he's been blind to all his life. People. Even with Mycroft, they talk of the "other kids" and compares them to being stuck with apes at a zoo with no common grounds. For a large part, Mycroft was his only intellectual equal for the largest part of his life. And they chose to be very selective in who they spoke to. They never learned the people skills required unless thrown in the deep-end and told what was right and wrong.

Mycroft learned to adapt to an extent whereas Sherlock would rather indulge himself. So being with Watson, seeing how to talk to people and getting the results Sherlock wanted by saying what he wanted to say but in a different manner, Sherlock admired that immensely. He may dismiss it as "hopeless romanticism" because to him, that's exactly what it is. To him, he had no purpose for it. But he's seen it work and he's FASCINATED by this.

It's a puzzle he can't quite solve and make it work for him.

I love Sherlock. I love his character. His deductions. His wit and even how he closes off from the world just to entertain himself. But there are only so many remakes, so many movies, so many series before you start going "It's Sherlock again. What case is he going to solve in a brilliant manner this time?" It's a nice change that only slightly deviates from the classic Sherlock to a new version that shows him completely in a modern society and trying to adapt.

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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby viscomica » 11 Jan 2014, 15:43

But you can't base a whole episode solely on that!!! I mean, where is my brilliant amazing modern-life 1 hour long case? It only lasted about the last half an hour and it was a silly case! Honestly, I'm disappointed. If there have to be some changes, I wouldn't like it, but at least you have to present them over time and not in one episode out of the blue just because the character needs to change. People can change, but not all at once. It takes time, and given Sherlocks's traits and characteristics so far, I'd bet he would need a LOT of time to become more 'human'.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Darkobra » 11 Jan 2014, 15:49

I agree with you there. We only get 3 episodes per season and they can't afford to drag things out. I personally think season 2 should have been the last episode. It would have been a brilliant ending to the series.

I would have liked a longer case but I think it all connected beautifully in the last half hour. They've been dragging on the character development too much considering the limited episode count.

But too fast? I don't know about that part. I wouldn't consider it out the blue. Maybe his time away made him realise the important things. I mean right when he first reunited with Watson, he was... well, Sherlock! But with a more playful side and a joy! Both proving an interesting scientific fact and saying to his old friend "I've missed you and please don't punch me!"
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Psyclone » 11 Jan 2014, 16:00

Just watched TSoT and the end was NOT OKAY. Say what you will about modern adaptations, but this Sherlock has feelings whether you like it or not, and he just... poor baby.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Darkobra » 11 Jan 2014, 16:01

Oh man. I was so hyped up about the case I forgot all about that part... Man... That was crushing.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Psyclone » 11 Jan 2014, 16:07

I really hope they don't stick to ACD canon for what he's doing after.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Lyinginbedmon » 11 Jan 2014, 17:41

Well both Moffat and Gatiss are big nerds for the ACD stories, so it could go either way...
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby viscomica » 11 Jan 2014, 17:48

ACD?
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Psyclone » 11 Jan 2014, 18:03

Arthur Conan Doyle.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Lyinginbedmon » 11 Jan 2014, 18:03

And it's companion, ACDC, which refers to the canon established by Doyle.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby viscomica » 11 Jan 2014, 18:16

Oh!! Thanks
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Jenelmo » 11 Jan 2014, 18:27

I don't if it is because people haven't seen it that it have not been discussed, but earlier this week is was revealed that Moffat and Gatiss have already plotted out seasons 4 and 5
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-01-08/sherlock-weve-plotted-out-the-whole-of-series-4-and-5-reveals-steven-moffat
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Psyclone » 11 Jan 2014, 18:51

So long as Sherlock and John retire and keep bees together eventually, I'm okay with it.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Elomin Sha » 12 Jan 2014, 14:00

That was...

Also, the title of the thread needs to change.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Darkobra » 12 Jan 2014, 14:01

Not seen the latest episode. Will tomorrow morning.

Also, I agree. It kinds screws up people that have only seen season 1 or not seen it yet.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Elomin Sha » 12 Jan 2014, 14:04

Oh no...you'll see what I mean.

Stay away from twitter and social media.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby viscomica » 12 Jan 2014, 14:14

Psyclone wrote:So long as Sherlock and John retire and keep bees together eventually, I'm okay with it.


Ditto.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Darkobra » 12 Jan 2014, 14:42

Elomin Sha wrote:Oh no...you'll see what I mean.

Stay away from twitter and social media.


I hate social media. Just this thread I avoid then for the next... 16 hours.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Jenelmo » 12 Jan 2014, 15:09

I loved this episode, but then i have loved all the episodes even the ones other people seem to hate (S3E01) but it was weird seeing Lars Mikkelsen as Charles Augustus Magnussen as i am used to seeing him in smaller roles.

But i would like to see next season that Moriarty is just a smokescreen and the real villain is Hannibal who has come to avenge his big Brother :D
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