Sherlock Lives

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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Psyclone » 12 Jan 2014, 16:06

MY SOUL. IT IS IN PIECES. Also his dog is named Redbeard because he wanted to be a pirate when he was little how cute is that.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby iamafish » 13 Jan 2014, 01:20

not sure quite how I felt about the episode. There wasn't much detecting, but I don't mind that. A lot of the character stuff with John and Mary was fantastic.

The resolution left a little to be desired, as it wasn't really very Sherlock, but then again, him going into exile would have been a really good cliffhanger on which to leave the season, allowing him to return in secret and under the radar for the next season.

I'm going to pretend that the credits rolled when the music initially began to fade in, because NOPE. I hate it when writers do this. Why bring back old villains who have been dealt with satisfactorily already? Create anew, don't just fall back on things you've already made and wrapped up! Argh
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Geoff_B » 13 Jan 2014, 04:17

viscomica wrote:
Psyclone wrote:So long as Sherlock and John retire and keep bees together eventually, I'm okay with it.


Ditto.


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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Darkobra » 13 Jan 2014, 11:20

Did Mycroft imply he had a third brother? He mentioned the other one or something like that when questioned about brotherly familiarity.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 13 Jan 2014, 11:32

To quote what I put on Facebook, "I'm not exactly sure how that amount of pure amazing could possibly have fitted into an hour and a half, but somehow Sherlock did it."

Loved it, loved it, loved it. However, this...

Elomin Sha wrote:That was...

Also, the title of the thread needs to change.


...was just a little misleading when I hadn't seen it. I thought I was due for an incredibly unexpected dose of deja vu. As it is, I have a theory:

Warning, spoilers for the most recent episode sort of contained within - Click to Expand
For those who haven't read the books, Holmes originally came out of hiding to seek Watson's help in pursuing a certain Colonel Sebastian Moran, one of Moriarty's deputies, an expert sniper and 'the most dangerous man in London'. I have a theory, borne from thinking about this particular story that, although the character and probably even the name will have changed significantly, what we see here is in fact one of Moriarty's deputies who managed to slip under the radar after the Sherlock incident. My personal theory is that we in fact have a superlative undercover master of disguise and misdirection who is impersonating Moriarty, partly because it would explain his survival but also because someone like that would be the ideal adversary for Sherlock to pit his wits against.
Hey, I didn't say the theory was inventive.
Either way, I very much doubt Moriarty is actually back. I think he was mainly used as an interesting and not to gimmicky way to ensure Sherlock is back for next series, although I very much look forward to seeing the various writing gymnastics they go through to get past the 'he just committed murder' thing
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Lyinginbedmon » 13 Jan 2014, 14:48

Considering the circumstances I can't imagine it will have made the papers all that much.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Psyclone » 13 Jan 2014, 16:27

iamafish wrote:The resolution left a little to be desired, as it wasn't really very Sherlock, but then again, him going into exile would have been a really good cliffhanger on which to leave the season, allowing him to return in secret and under the radar for the next season.

I would have shot someone if they did that to us again. Oh wait, Sherlock already did.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Lyinginbedmon » 13 Jan 2014, 19:35

Technically they un-shot someone for it. :D
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Elomin Sha » 14 Jan 2014, 03:42

Thread title should be changed to Moriarty Lives.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 14 Jan 2014, 04:32

Elomin Sha wrote:Thread title should be changed to Moriarty Lives.


I get that now...
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Elomin Sha » 14 Jan 2014, 04:38

Heh.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Bebop Man » 22 Jan 2014, 08:16

I watched the second episode last night, The Sign of Three. I think it's the most laughs I got from any Sherlock episode. But then I felt a little put off by how self-aware Sherlock has become of himself. That joke about being a "high functioning sociopath"? Even if Sherlock thought that of himself, would he say it out loud, let alone make a joke about it? And in the end when he admits to being as needy as a baby to John & Mary? 1) Where is he getting all this clarity about himself, 2) Where is he getting the galls to say it out loud?

Another thing I didn't much like about the episode is its clip show structure. You know when writers are on strike, or have written themselves into a corner, or are simply biding time for the real deal, and so you get a kind of mid-season recap clip show of all the good stuff from before? Except this one actually fabricated new material rather than flashing back to stock footage. Fair enough. It still felt padded and pointless until the very end, when most threads were tied together.

And another thing. Characters seems to have outgrown Sherlock for no good reason except as filler. We get scenes in which Lestrade, Mrs. Hudson and Molly all comfer about Sherlock, or Watson, and these scenes are meaningless. That bit right before the big speech where Molly and Lestrade talk about how Sherlock is really nervous, and we flashback to them talking about how Sherlock's going to be really nervous, and then we go back and Sherlock's really nervous? What was the point of that?

I don't mind the wedding, I kind of like Mary, I have no strong feelings about formula. But I'm getting an out-of-character vibe from Sherlock and secondary cast and I'm not sure it's completely justified.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Master Gunner » 22 Jan 2014, 08:47

Bebop Man wrote:I watched the second episode last night, The Sign of Three. I think it's the most laughs I got from any Sherlock episode. But then I felt a little put off by how self-aware Sherlock has become of himself. That joke about being a "high functioning sociopath"? Even if Sherlock thought that of himself, would he say it out loud, let alone make a joke about it? And in the end when he admits to being as needy as a baby to John & Mary? 1) Where is he getting all this clarity about himself, 2) Where is he getting the galls to say it out loud?


Sherlock's being calling himself a "high-functioning sociopath" since the very first episode. He says that every time someone calls him a psychopath. As for the second bit, he is well aware that he is "different" from other people, and that John has long gone out of out of his way to accommodate him. He thinks it's silly that other people are the way they are, but it's hardly the first time he's said how much he depends on Watson.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Bebop Man » 22 Jan 2014, 10:06

Maybe it's not so much that he admits all of this as the fact he's willingly stepping aside from everyone and everything. I would've thought he would've put a little more resistance to all the things that are happening. Instead heacts as if he's "just fine" with everything. Where is he getting this surge of empathy from?
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 22 Jan 2014, 11:17

I personally think that aspect of his character and how it has changed over time is the whole point of the episode, but that's just an opinion you've heard already.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Bebop Man » 22 Jan 2014, 11:56

I more than get that's the point of the episode, I just don't buy it.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Genghis Ares » 22 Jan 2014, 12:32

I don't really like the idea of them bringing back Moriarty. I actually don't really like the character as portrayed in this series and I was glad that he died. He doesn't really seem like a criminal mastermind to me, just more like a crazy person who we are told is smart. He never really does anything smart on-screen, everything credited to his "genious" is just accepted as such because things were written to go his way until his downfall.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 22 Jan 2014, 12:42

To me, Moriarty is Sherlock's answer to the Joker- the logical conclusion to 'some men just want to watch the world burn'. I think that interpretation of the character is a good idea and that he is supremely well-acted, but I will agree that I feel it could be better utilised as a character concept.

Even so, I'm prepared to put good money on Moriarty's return not being an actual thing, but merely a way of keeping Sherlock around without doing the whole 'he comes back!' thing again.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby AlexanderDitto » 22 Jan 2014, 14:05

Bebop Man wrote:And another thing. Characters seems to have outgrown Sherlock for no good reason except as filler. We get scenes in which Lestrade, Mrs. Hudson and Molly all comfer about Sherlock, or Watson, and these scenes are meaningless. That bit right before the big speech where Molly and Lestrade talk about how Sherlock is really nervous, and we flashback to them talking about how Sherlock's going to be really nervous, and then we go back and Sherlock's really nervous? What was the point of that?

I don't mind the wedding, I kind of like Mary, I have no strong feelings about formula. But I'm getting an out-of-character vibe from Sherlock and secondary cast and I'm not sure it's completely justified.


That would be because Moffat is actually kind of a shitty writer who cannot write women, or any characters who are not his main characters. Like... nobody exists in this universe outside of Sherlock and Watson. Everybody else is a prop who only exist to fawn over or talk about or obsess over the main character. It's why Moffat's Sherlock SAYS he respects Mrs. Hudson, but then treats her, basically, with scorn (the original Sherlock did no such thing).

This is also how Moffat writes Doctor Who. It's why Moffat's three main companions have been women who all became obsessed with the Doctor as a child and subsequently exist only to wait for the day when he'll return to sweep them off their feet.

I've only watched the first episode of the new season of Sherlock, but frankly I was not impressed. A plot to blow up Parliment on Guy Fawkes day? Like I haven't seen that before. And... the perpetrator was a North Korean diplomat? And the bomb was hidden in an abandoned section of the Underground. And nobody noticed that a train was missing AN ENTIRE CARRIAGE? What is even the point. Like the underground operators wouldn't notice.

This on top of the fact that 1. nobody's pissed at Sherlock being an asshole dickhead of the most collosal proportions, 2. Watson's feelings of anger toward him are basically swept under the rug by the end of the episode because... why? 3. Molly is treated like shit throughout the episode by Sherlock and others (instead of developing the idea that Sherlock was jealous of Molly's forensic abilities, the script backpedaled quickly and put her back in the 'sad woman longing after unattainable man' bucket it had relegated her to in previous seasons, and then on top of that had everyone sniggering at her with her Sherlock-look-alike fiance), 4. despite promising that he'd tell us exactly what happened at the end of season 3, we never REALLY find out (classic Moffat "I'll tell you how I did it except actually I won't haha you're stupid for caring I can just make nonsensical shit up), 5. Moffat shits on his fans repeatedly in this episode.

Also Watson's screaming "I'M NOT GAY" at Ms. Hudson was a little much. Yes, we get it. He's not gay. He's said so before. Haha. It's so funny. Haha. :/
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 22 Jan 2014, 14:30

Yeah, that episode was my least favourite of the new series. For some, but not all, of stated reasons
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Bebop Man » 22 Jan 2014, 16:37

My thoughts exactly with the first episode.

We have this guy. He works with trains. He plays with trains. He's obsessed with trains. His life is about trains, period. He notices a man boards a train and disappears between stations, calls the greatest detective in the world and they watch the footage together. And yet neither the greatest detective in the world nor the biggest train nerd in the world notice a fucking WAGON goes missing between stations. Come the fuck on.

I don't buy either that Sherlock couldn't solve that case about the dude stabbed in the shower. Watson tells him something about how he only solved it later because "he cared". Now when oh when have Sherlock's emotions factored in the procedure?

About Molly - she was created as a kind of romantic foil for Sherlock. I'm not asking that they get together, but the tension was fun to have around, and occasionally forced Sherlock to reconsider his treatment of others. Now they've written her into a corner with some dude she doesn't respect or admire (cf. that bit during the wedding where she tells him to can it). Where do you take it from there?
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby RedNightmare » 26 Jan 2014, 11:52

Ok, watched the last one tonight.Moriarty surviving is something I can live with. Sherlock staged his own death, makes sense Moriarty could pull off the same stunt. But I agree with most of you that he probably won't really be back.

I noticed the thing about the side characters basically disappearing too. If you don't want to use them anymore, don't. People come and go all the time. Now you are just doing token appearances.

@AlexanderDitto: I'm not sure I agree about all the women Moffat has written, but holy hell did Molly get the short end of the stick. I remember in series 2 she mentioned that she was done waiting for Sherlock and that really made me like her. But then we get this season in which she goes right back to being a lovestruck little girl with little self-esteem.

*Do we really need spoiler tags this far into the thread? Anyone who hasn't seen the last season knows to stay away, right?
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby viscomica » 26 Jan 2014, 14:10

My pseudonym is Ix wrote:To me, Moriarty is Sherlock's answer to the Joker- the logical conclusion to 'some men just want to watch the world burn'. I think that interpretation of the character is a good idea and that he is supremely well-acted, but I will agree that I feel it could be better utilised as a character concept.

Even so, I'm prepared to put good money on Moriarty's return not being an actual thing, but merely a way of keeping Sherlock around without doing the whole 'he comes back!' thing again.


It would be possitively awesome if Moriarty did not come back at all but instead it was another villain... maybe Moran using Moriarty's footage (?), for unbeknown reasons. If not, then I have to say I don't see the point in bringing him back.
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby viscomica » 26 Jan 2014, 14:16

Bebop Man wrote:And yet neither the greatest detective in the world nor the biggest train nerd in the world notice a fucking WAGON goes missing between stations. Come the fuck on.


Wouldn't it be a car? Or a carriage? :D (just joking, I don't buy it either. It is kind of naive, I reckon)
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Re: Sherlock Lives

Postby Psyclone » 26 Jan 2014, 19:01

If Lestrade and Mycroft disappear I'll be pissed. But I agree, these token appearances are almost insulting.
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