#YesAllWomen

[Tycherin]

I do think it probably doesn't help at all that one term for Humanity is "Man". (another is <insert rant about environmental issues>)
Is it being too petty about prejudice in terminology or is this a good point?

Nyyyeh? The thing is that words are just words, it's the meaning behind them that's actually interesting. You could change the word "human" to "skaboola" (in theory, anyway) and it wouldn't change the underlying cultural bias in favor of men.

[aeric90]

But the calling of the human race "man" is a symptom of that cultural bias. Preference for the word human stops bringing to mind the male sex as the primary representative of the entire race. It's a small thing that can make a big difference in the long run.

[ch3m1kal]

You seem to forget that English is not the only language and most others don't use the word for "man" to mean "humanity".

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

I do think it probably doesn't help at all that one term for Humanity is "Man". (another is <insert rant about environmental issues>)
Is it being too petty about prejudice in terminology or is this a good point?

Nyyyeh? The thing is that words are just words, it's the meaning behind them that's actually interesting. You could change the word "human" to "skaboola" (in theory, anyway) and it wouldn't change the underlying cultural bias in favor of men.

I agree words are just words. It's the meaning behind them which has power.

But, that is not the same for the person receiving those words in communication. The person who reads/hears/sees what you have to say do not have the privilege of seeing into your mind. The only have the words (and behaviour/body language) to go on.

I can describe absolutely horrific things to people without personally meaning the words I say. Like the visualisation doesn't even come into my mind. But the person who I am speaking to gets every bit of it, and believes it.

Describing the collective of the human race as "Man" may not be intending to be undermining women. But others won't know that.

Consciously we all know that "Man" is a word for the collective of humanity. But subconsciously we are picking up on the word "Man" being there and not a gender neutral term.

I am not saying making every obscuring gender inequality to be neutral will solve the problem of Misogyny. But I think it would be foolish to not be aware that it is a problem that is nibbling in the background.

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

In Welsh, the word for Humanity is: dynollaeth or dynolryw
Human: dynol

Woman: gwraig or merch
Female: benyw
Feminine: benywaidd

Man: dyn or gw^r
Male: gwryw
Masculine: gwryw or gwrywaidd

In Welsh there seems to be only one link between the term for humanity and malesness. It seems in Welsh there's a different word for masculine traits "gw^r".
However, in every day Welsh speak, the word used to refer to a man is "dyn". (If you want even more everyday and something Wanglish, "boi" is the word).

So in this circumstance, it seems it's not really a big issue in Welsh. It's merely the Anglicizing of everyday Spoken Welsh where it happens.

[Metcarfre]

Some of you may know I'm a moderator of one of Reddit's larger subs, /r/malefashionadvice.

I realized yesterday that it's a community of over 375k subscribers, many of whom are young, impressionable, nerdy men, who may need to consider the things we've been discussing.

I posted this in our General Discussion thread, and was wondering what you thought of it;

I just want to talk briefly about the #YesAllWomen and surrounding fallout of the shooting that occurred last week.

MFA is a place where a lot of men, particularly young, nerdy men, come to for advice regarding fashion and style. In many cases, this advice is sought because the person wants to improve themselves or their appearance as part of an effort to making themselves attractive to the opposite sex.

I want to remind all of you, no matter how much effort you put into your appearance or fitness, or how much of a "nice guy" you think you are, you are never, ever owed sex by a woman for any reason.

Also, if you've ever interacted with a woman and had something untoward happen such as being given a fake phone number, or being told that she has a boyfriend when she really doesn't, please don't call that woman a "bitch" or get mad at the situation. In many or most cases women have learned through bad experiences that some men simply won't accept no as an answer, and have to resort to these methods because some men will only respect another man (the fake boyfriend).

This also speaks to the culture surrounding pickup artists, theredpill, & etc. Many of these subs, sites, and communities advocate things like "escalating physical touch" and "never take no for an answer". Please understand that these are essentially promoting sexual assault and contribute to women's feelings of extreme discomfort when have to 'let a man down'.

There's many, many articles that have been written in the last week addressing this subject, I'd just like to point you to a couple if you're interested;

Why #YesAllWomen Is The Most Important Thing You'll Read Today

Chris Gethard - Overcome Your Programming and Be a Better Man

[JustAName]

<3 Met

[Metcarfre]

As a side note, we independently had a pretty good discussion about gender norms and clothing last week.

[Psyclone]

Using your power for good, Met!

[Deedles]

Makes me glad to come onto the forum and see that kind of initiative, Met.

[My pseudonym is Ix]

Well played sir. Well goddamn played.

[Metcarfre]

And a dude linked to another good article in the comments, and I think it's super applicable to all dudes who think of themselves as good dudes trying not to be assholes;

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronom ... ailed.html

[Matt]

Phil Plait is rad.

-m

[ex-Lurker]

To contrast, this is the kind of people Rodger interacts with.

*Warning, will reduce your faith in humanity and possible trigger*

http://jezebel.com/lessons-from-a-day-s ... socialflow

The one and only redeeming feature of that community is that it seems to be small. But man, I can see how Rodger got such twisted ideas with his environment.

Pro: The internet helps you find like-minded individuals
Con: The internet helps you find like-minded individuals

[Deedles]

I read through it and didn't lose any faith in humanity, mostly because I wasn't too shocked by what I read, it was simply what I expected. I did come across one thing that made me react, which was when they referred to them being oppressed by women because they won't have sex with them. I out-right laughed at that.

I won't deny that there being, even a small group, of men with such an attitude is scary, but I mostly just pity them for being so blind and deluded.

[JustAName]

I... I really wish I hadn't read that. Fuck.

[AdmiralMemo]

Pro: The internet helps you find like-minded individuals
Con: The internet helps you find like-minded individuals

Yep. That's both its greatest strength and its greatest weakness.

Without the Internet, we wouldn't have either something like Desert Bus or the Reading Rainbow KickStarter. However, without the Internet, we also wouldn't have cases like Armin Meiwes. The Internet is but a tool, like a knife. You could use a knife to cut a sandwich or a person. It's all up to the intent of the user.

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

I find the internet helps me find communities I thought had like-minded individuals, but I manage to piss them off, so they probably weren't. Such as Penny Arcade Art forums, Roller Coaster Construction threads on any forums, Pokemon etc...

[Elomin Sha]

Hasn't happened here. So I think you're safe.

[Psyclone]

Jesus fuck. I never want to leave my house again.

[2stepz]

For those of you who have Morgan on FB... his latest post is relevant to this thread.

[Duckay]

I was just coming here to see if anyone had said that.

[Ptangmatik]

Link?

[plummeting_sloth]

I just wanted to say a friend of mine forwarded me what you wrote for MFA, Met, and I didn't put it together that perhaps people with the same handle might in fact be the same. So now I've got to read it twice... with any luck I'll someone discover it a third time. Well done!

[Duckay]

I hope this isn't inappropriate, but I have another story to tell. Emboldened by this thread, this campaign, I told some friends about something that happened about 18 months ago. Without going into too many details, it was a pool party, there was alcohol, and a guy tried to touch me inappropriately. I find it hard to explain to people because I feel like I could so easily have been at fault - why was I near him, why was I drinking, why was I wearing a bikini?

Anyway, I told these friends and was relieved at first that they were understanding - when I started to say that maybe I shouldn't have been dressed like that and drinking, one of them said very clearly that wearing a bikini at a pool party with alcohol is not an invitation. However, he followed it up by asking, "Did you tell him you didn't want it?"

My immediate instinct was to say "no, I didn't, I was shocked so I just sort of pushed him away and made my way to the other end of the pool, then the second time I got out and sat by myself, I guess that was wrong".

What I only realise now, over 24 hours later, is that I should have said "He didn't ask me if it was okay to touch me before he did, and I didn't say he could". Yeah, I know, nonverbal signals; but still, am I wrong here?