Ferguson

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Ferguson

Postby JustAName » 15 Aug 2014, 22:04

We used to have threads discussing big news. That hasn't happened as much anymore. Are we less informed, or less interested?

I'm personally terrified of everything that's going on. Perhaps the first big event like this in a person's life always seems like it's the end of civilization, but I wasn't around for Vietnam protests and I wasn't around for the L.A. riots. From here it looks like the blatant racism embedded in this country's power structures are emerging violently, and it's going to get worse before (if) it gets better. I'm glad that I'll be moving out of the U.S. in a few years, but I'm scared of what could happen if we leave this country's capabilities in the hands of people like the Ferguson police. This whole thing is terrifying, and I don't see how we can work against these extreme odds to fix the way our law enforcement, and society, works.

I guess maybe there's not that much to discuss. Shit's scary. The world's going up in tear gas.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Psyclone » 15 Aug 2014, 23:11

I think a thread like this is a great idea, but the scale of the panic attacks I've been having about this issue means that I'll probably have to bow out of this discussion.
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AdmiralMemo
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Re: Ferguson

Postby AdmiralMemo » 15 Aug 2014, 23:18

I have little to say because I remember the LA Riots and I think this will turn out much the same, so it's not as interesting or relevant to me. It's a sad situation that continues to happen, and will continue to happen if we don't shape up our entire society.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Jamfalcon » 15 Aug 2014, 23:32

Regarding these threads, I always enjoy (well, maybe that's not the right word for this case) reading them, but it never occurs to me to make them. I think I've made two threads in my three years here...

But yeah, the situation is crazy. As someone who gets most news from the local TV and Twitter, in kind of just crept up on me. There's been almost nothing on TV—last night was actually the first time I'd seen it mentioned, and it was pathetically undercovered, just presented in a fifteen second blurb that made it sound like the police were having trouble containing a rowdy protest. Obviously based on what I've seen on Twitter, that's far from the whole story, and it's part of the reason I'm moving farther and farther from TV news (I know, I'm years behind the curve). Every time they do a story I actually know anything about, be it something like this or a little puff piece on some pop culture fad that I was previously aware of, they take such a surface level look at the situation and often completely misrepresent the facts. So I have to assume that it isn't just the subjects I'm familiar with that they're messing up, and take all their news with a grain of salt.

Sorry, I guess I kind of got off topic there. But to the topic at hand, yeah, it's scary that this happens in a supposedly modern, intelligent country and that nobody comes in to immediately put a stop to the chaos. It's that realization that this can happen anywhere, and that society might not be as safe as it seems that makes it so scary, I think.

It's late, I don't know if any of that made sense.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Valkyrie-Lemons » 16 Aug 2014, 00:26

Well this sort of thing is going to repeat itself as long as the police remained so militarized. I disagree with having police armed in the first place (policing by consent), but there is a major difference with police having handguns and the sort of gear they had on the streets of Ferguson. It looked more like they were in Syria, not Missouri.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Psyclone » 16 Aug 2014, 00:36

I believe several Palestinians confirmed that the tear gas canisters used by Israel are the same tear gas canisters Ferguson police used, so...
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Thysane » 16 Aug 2014, 00:47

I believe a number of former marines on twitter confirmed from photographs that the police in Ferguson right now are more armed to the teeth than the marines were invading Iraq. Now if that isn't a scary thought, I don't know what is. Also, apropos of that thing about the tear gas, some Palestinians have started giving the people of Ferguson tips in dealing with the stuff. Also, the STATE SENATOR Maria Chappelle-Nadal was gassed during a nonviolent protest, and has had to confront the police chief, who said to the question "will I be gassed again?" - "I hope not."

Guh.

Oh, and Al Jazeera's attempted coverage being sabotaged by the police themselves, on camera, which Al Jazeera then showed on their network.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Elomin Sha » 16 Aug 2014, 00:58

And it seemed like the Highway patrol police were doing a good job in calmin things down when they came in a day or so ago.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Rikadyn » 16 Aug 2014, 01:06

Psyclone wrote:I believe several Palestinians confirmed that the tear gas canisters used by Israel are the same tear gas canisters Ferguson police used, so...


Well of course, we supply Israel.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Prospero101 » 16 Aug 2014, 06:08

I don't really know what to say about this, except I'm very, very scared. This shit is happening less than an hour's drive from my house.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Sieg Reyu » 17 Aug 2014, 02:00

Depending on qhich direction Ferguson is from you, you may be as little as an hour and a half away from me, Prospero. 2 1/2 hours southeast.

I've been tempted to make a thread about this since I heard about it. Chris Kluwe has been one of the greatest news sources about the events, and I follow him on twitter. But honestly, I just don't know what to say or do. I want to call attention to it because I feel it deserves at least that much, but I just haven't. Really, all I've done is unfriended a few people on facebook for posting racist stuff, or attempts to justify the polices actions. So one person post this little gem. Deleted him in a second. Image
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Re: Ferguson

Postby CSt » 17 Aug 2014, 02:42

Sieg Reyu wrote:I want to call attention to it because I feel it deserves at least that much, but I just haven't.


Something like that was mentioned before and I wanted to ask how the perception of the situation is in the US? Because over here there are typically two to three articles a day about what happens in Ferguson and background etc. Is that so different for you?
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Lord Hosk » 17 Aug 2014, 05:44

The actions of the officer are inexcusable.
The reaction of the mob is inexcusable.
The reaction of the police to the protestors is inexcusable.
The protestors have a right to assemble and peaceably protest.
The reaction of the state police seems to be correct, stop the mob, protect the protestors.

Unfortunately the protestors make a great cover for the mob. :(
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Rikadyn » 17 Aug 2014, 06:09

CSt wrote:
Sieg Reyu wrote:I want to call attention to it because I feel it deserves at least that much, but I just haven't.


Something like that was mentioned before and I wanted to ask how the perception of the situation is in the US? Because over here there are typically two to three articles a day about what happens in Ferguson and background etc. Is that so different for you?


We'll get two or three articles, but they are usually the same point of view, just worded differently. Generally they just try to convey the status quo, that it was a tragedy, but there isn't any other problem with the fact that the police are in a shoot first from their armored personnel carriers attitude. Of course this is only if the area is poor and black.

Was reading elsewhere and the point was brought up comparing and contrasting Ferguson and the Cliven Bundy bullshit out in Nevada. One you have an armed militia supporting a rich white (racist) man openly antagonizing the police with weapons and not only does the police not use tear gas or guns, but generally seemed to be in support of it.

Let's also mention that these deranged white "conservatives" that preach "We need our guns to counter the threat of the militarized government" not doing shit when it comes to the militarized police actually brandishing their new military weapons given to them to prevent pot sales in the poor and black cities.

But then if the people that suffer this shit day in day out decide fuck it, we're gonna do something about it, then well it just proves how much criminal mindset these people have and how we need to cut back on these "entitlements" that let this kind of thought persist in the lesser people. Even worse is when a few "Community leaders" which are always self anointed come out and basically say "We so sorry master we won't do it again" trying to appease the system that would rather see them dead or better yet in person where they can be put to work into the new modern slavery system. Not only that they are quick to turn their backs on the people actually trying to fight for a better life, as it makes them look bad in the media, because heaven forbid that the media isn't just out to prop up the status quo of inequality in America.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby mariomario42 » 17 Aug 2014, 07:38

In watching some video of the protests last night, and someone throwing a Molotov cocktail at a building, the protesters concern me more than the police. I give police the benefit of the doubt due to all the good they do, of course not to say they get a free pass in anyway, just reminding myself to look at things from their perspective. But just as people hold the police force by the actions of the few, the same applies to the protesters. I understand these people are upset, but their actions do not help the cause.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby JustAName » 17 Aug 2014, 09:23

The police showed up with heavy militarization before any looting started. Looting has happened once or twice, was mostly done by the younger, dumb kids, and has been prevented by other members of the community. The police have done nothing about the looting. They have, however, fired tear gas at elected officials, reporters, dismantled cameras, removed their own name badges so that people couldn't identify them (illegal), detained two reporters who were sitting in a McDonald's, and a lot more. When people call the police station, those answering the phones respond with things like, "You black monkeys have got to stop calling." And laugh at them.

Fuck the police.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby poopintheairtonight » 17 Aug 2014, 12:56

Thysane wrote:I believe a number of former marines on twitter confirmed from photographs that the police in Ferguson right now are more armed to the teeth than the marines were invading Iraq. Now if that isn't a scary thought, I don't know what is. Also, apropos of that thing about the tear gas, some Palestinians have started giving the people of Ferguson tips in dealing with the stuff. Also, the STATE SENATOR Maria Chappelle-Nadal was gassed during a nonviolent protest, and has had to confront the police chief, who said to the question "will I be gassed again?" - "I hope not."

Guh.

Oh, and Al Jazeera's attempted coverage being sabotaged by the police themselves, on camera, which Al Jazeera then showed on their network.


Holy shit. I hadn't heard about the senator being teargassed. The Al Jazeera crew being gassed and shot with rubber bullets was on reddit, amazing the way news gets around. I mean even when I was growing up and we had the internet, believable news just didn't spread that quickly. So...Fuck yeah smartphones, you make the news world go-round.

Rikadyn wrote:
Psyclone wrote:I believe several Palestinians confirmed that the tear gas canisters used by Israel are the same tear gas canisters Ferguson police used, so...


Well of course, we supply Israel.


Then we wonder why everyone in conflict with Israel seems to hate us...

Fayili wrote:The police showed up with heavy militarization before any looting started. Looting has happened once or twice, was mostly done by the younger, dumb kids, and has been prevented by other members of the community. The police have done nothing about the looting. They have, however, fired tear gas at elected officials, reporters, dismantled cameras, removed their own name badges so that people couldn't identify them (illegal), detained two reporters who were sitting in a McDonald's, and a lot more. When people call the police station, those answering the phones respond with things like, "You black monkeys have got to stop calling." And laugh at them.

Fuck the police.


Holy fuck. This seems like a good time for the police in St Louis and Ferguson to get a through clean-up.

I raised hell when I called the police and was told "if there's a man following you around screaming obscenities you must've done something to make him do that." I can't imagine why no one is recording these calls and filing lawsuits.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 17 Aug 2014, 14:04

I imagine that the ACLU is going to come down hard on any and all abuses of civil rights. They put out a call the other day for lawyers to go to Ferguson to be "legal observers" present at the protests.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby AdmiralMemo » 17 Aug 2014, 18:28

mariomario42 wrote:In watching some video of the protests last night, and someone throwing a Molotov cocktail at a building, the protesters concern me more than the police. I give police the benefit of the doubt due to all the good they do, of course not to say they get a free pass in anyway, just reminding myself to look at things from their perspective. But just as people hold the police force by the actions of the few, the same applies to the protesters. I understand these people are upset, but their actions do not help the cause.
My feelings exactly. Some people did things wrong. Then the people who were wronged retaliated with more wrong stuff, and it's gone back and forth and escalated. It's become a Charlie Foxtrot, where some people on both sides are just being idiots and screwing things up for everyone.
Rikadyn wrote:We'll get two or three articles, but they are usually the same point of view, just worded differently. Generally they just try to convey the status quo, that it was a tragedy, but there isn't any other problem with the fact that the police are in a shoot first from their armored personnel carriers attitude. Of course this is only if the area is poor and black.
Yeah, that's a bad attitude to have. When the guy attacked them with his stolen liquor bottle, they could have tazed him or something.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Rikadyn » 17 Aug 2014, 19:26

You know, I'm pro-looting. Mostly in cases where the necessities of life are liberated from the forces using them as a stick to keep people in check both by denial and by forcing people into shitty situations to afford them. This looting however seemed to be something else, something more ironic. Given the stereotypical culture of today, this looting was the once docile pet of the capitalist system, commodity fetishism, turning it's head to bite the master. Day in day out we are force fed the idea the images that we aren't shit if we don't have the latest and greatest, and even when we finally achieve the ability to gather their latest disposable trinkets in our hands, it's never enough because the "next big thing" has come and we're back to being shit.

Fayili wrote:The police showed up with heavy militarization before any looting started. Looting has happened once or twice, was mostly done by the younger, dumb kids, and has been prevented by other members of the community. The police have done nothing about the looting. They have, however, fired tear gas at elected officials, reporters, dismantled cameras, removed their own name badges so that people couldn't identify them (illegal), detained two reporters who were sitting in a McDonald's, and a lot more. When people call the police station, those answering the phones respond with things like, "You black monkeys have got to stop calling." And laugh at them.

Fuck the police.


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Re: Ferguson

Postby Lord Hosk » 17 Aug 2014, 19:29

So this whole situation when from shitty to... whats shittier than shitty?
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Re: Ferguson

Postby King Kool » 17 Aug 2014, 19:32

I think that molotov cocktail was actually a tear gas canister the guy was throwing back at police. The contrast on the spark of the erupting canister or something makes it look like fire. (This is information from Twitter, so take it with a lot of salt).

Possibly only tangentially related to this issue, but I have two buttons in response to tragedies like this and the protests that follow them:

1. If the victim wouldn't have appreciated being called a "kid" or a "child" by anyone but his or her parents on the day they were killed... then don't use "kid" or "child" to describe the victim. "Teen" or "teenager" is fine if the person IS a teenager, of course. That is accurate, but if you must emphasize the youth of the person, why not use "minor," which has a clear legal definition and is not inflammatory?

2. I don't care how sure you are of your side of the story, leave your KIDS (and by kids, I mean anyone pre-teen or so) out of your protest. Don't give them a damn sign and tell them what they think or what they represent unless they're smart enough to want to come themselves and make their own sign and speak their own mind. Bringing your kid along and telling them what to say to get some people to sympathize with it because your kid is there is using a human as a means to an end.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Rikadyn » 17 Aug 2014, 19:35

the heart knows no greater tragedy than a breath that begins in love and ends in grief...
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Rikadyn » 17 Aug 2014, 19:45

King Kool wrote:\

2. I don't care how sure you are of your side of the story, leave your KIDS (and by kids, I mean anyone pre-teen or so) out of your protest. Don't give them a damn sign and tell them what they think or what they represent unless they're smart enough to want to come themselves and make their own sign and speak their own mind. Bringing your kid along and telling them what to say to get some people to sympathize with it because your kid is there is using a human as a means to an end.


That's been a problem for forever, some people don't realise shit like this can turn violent quickly if the police see any reason to make it so, and you always have people that think that a protest is a family activity.
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Re: Ferguson

Postby Lord Hosk » 17 Aug 2014, 20:19

Rikadyn wrote:Shit white people say


That article was badly written and was clearly planned and possibly written before any interviews were even done. Every person she interviewed declined to give their name, and fit nicely into her story. The only sympathetic person is the one who "knows black people who live there" and every other person says things that fit a nice neat stereotype.
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