What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

[Amake]

Meanwhile,

who wants to fill me in on the context here? Tell me what horrible crime this person has committed that makes her deserve being made to feel like this. Be as creative or biased as you want; you know I'm not going to bother fact checking anything. I'm wide open to indoctrination from every side. Just curious if you consider this a victory for gamergate and an example of what you want to accomplish.

[flakaffe]

Meanwhile,
who wants to fill me in on the context here? Tell me what horrible crime this person has committed that makes her deserve being made to feel like this. Be as creative or biased as you want; you know I'm not going to bother fact checking anything. I'm wide open to indoctrination from every side. Just curious if you consider this a victory for gamergate and an example of what you want to accomplish.

DiGRA is an academic video game analysis foundation whose research findings are suspected to be purely ideologically motivated and whose current head has gone on record stating the "Gamers are dead" idea over three years ago, 2011 in a DiGRA meeting. The entire organization and their research is currently under intense scrutiny by #gg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rouq-VdgXdo

That this woman is in fear about some words spoken on the internet is sad but not really of my concern. Realtalk, who here was told in the last 48 hours that he'd be killed gruesomely? I did, I played some CS and met a fratboy with a microphone. Unless she's getting filled and uncapped syringes in the mail like Milo (@nero) did I see no cause for action.

[Amake]

Oh, you have the luxury of not needing to worry about if threats made to you are meant seriously. That justifies everything.

[flakaffe]

Oh, you have the luxury of not needing to worry about if threats made to you are meant seriously. That justifies everything.

Well then, please link me to where the threats have been made? I don't see any sources, she could have been making that all up. Meanwhile, on the other side of the fence:
https://twitter.com/Nero/status/513666683916255232
This is a journalist who has been reporting on the pro-gamergate movement and apparently this was enough tog et him sent a loaded syringe by one person
https://twitter.com/Nero/status/512950178916339712
And a large amount of toilet paper by another. I think we are dealing with entirely different magnitudes of "threat" here.

This isn't even the only case. Just earlier today this here got known which speaks quite well for itself I believe:
http://theralphretort.com/doxx-attempt- ... 4chan-sjw/
Some 4chan-mod team internal SJW attempted to dox a pro-GGer on that website. Turns out that pro-gger works for the DoD with a top secret clearance; now 4chan is being investigated as a whole by FBI and Homeland Defense. inb4 you ask me why it seems as if 4chan is anti-gg now.

[Arclight_Dynamo]

DiGRA is an academic video game analysis foundation whose research findings are suspected to be purely ideologically motivated and whose current head has gone on record stating the "Gamers are dead" idea over three years ago, 2011 in a DiGRA meeting. The entire organization and their research is currently under intense scrutiny by #gg.

Suspected by whom? Suspected on what grounds? Which ideology? Why is "ideology" automatically bad, when literally every human being (even you) has one? What was meant by "gamers are dead"? What was the context? Are you taking it out of context? Why is the statement, taken as meant and in correct context, bad? According to whom?

Most importantly, why the hell does any of that justify the harassment of another human being?

You can't just say things and be believed, you know.

That this woman is in fear about some words spoken on the internet is sad but not really of my concern.

It's everyone's concern. Yours more-so than mine, in fact, since the people doing the harassing are affiliated with a movement that you identify with. Which means you - yes, you - bear some responsibility, here, even if you aren't actively participating in the harassment.

Get your own house in order.

Realtalk, who here was told in the last 48 hours that he'd be killed gruesomely? I did, I played some CS and met a fratboy with a microphone. Unless she's getting filled and uncapped syringes in the mail like Milo (@nero) did I see no cause for action.

False equivalence. And you know it. Stop derailing.

[Trevor]

Some examples that can be read to support the idea of people disagreeing with harassment is not the same thing as "nobody" committing harassment.

There is no question that harassment has happened on one side or the other. The question was whether or not harassment is the aim of the movement.

[Amake]

And how nice that this is "not your concern", flakaffe you stand up guy you. This is in fact everything that concerns me about gamergate, but you're of course free to dismiss it along with any hopes you may have entertained of gaining my sympathies.

[Amake]

Oh, you have the luxury of not needing to worry about if threats made to you are meant seriously. That justifies everything.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the fence:
https://twitter.com/Nero/status/513666683916255232
This is a journalist who has been reporting on the pro-gamergate movement and apparently this was enough tog et him sent a loaded syringe by one person
https://twitter.com/Riddle1965/status/5 ... 8648855552
And a large amount of toilet paper by another. I think we are dealing with entirely different magnitudes of "threat" here.

Oh, it does concern you that these people have been threatened? Nice to know where your priorities are.

[Metcarfre]

That this woman is in fear about some words spoken on the internet is sad but not really of my concern.

This pretty much summarizes the exact problem with your "movement".

[King Kool]

Yeah, there's a pretty shocking lack of empathy in that statement.

There is no question that harassment has happened on one side or the other. The question was whether or not harassment is the aim of the movement.

If you found someone in your ranks who was committing harassment or issuing threats, either because that was the goal or in a moment of weakness, I hope you would tell them that that behavior is unacceptable. I think that's the least we can ask from any movement.

[Arclight_Dynamo]

If you found someone in your ranks who was committing harassment or issuing threats, either because that was the goal or in a moment of weakness, I hope you would tell them that that behavior is unacceptable. I think that's the least we can ask from any movement.

It's what we would expect from any movement that doesn't tacitly endorse and encourage harassment while maintaining that it does not as a fig-leaf to conceal socially-unacceptable behaviour.

Which is why I don't expect it from the likes of GamerGate.

[flakaffe]

Suspected by whom? Suspected on what grounds? Which ideology? Why is "ideology" automatically bad, when literally every human being (even you) has one? What was meant by "gamers are dead"? What was the context? Are you taking it out of context? Why is the statement, taken as meant and in correct context, bad? According to whom?

If you are this uninformed about the topic then I can only suggest you read up about it. Here's a few links to get you started.
http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/25/gamerg ... h-2-sides/
https://medium.com/@cainejw/a-narrative ... f6c1a52a60
I'm sorry but we can't properly argue unless you take steps to educate yourself on the subject.

Most importantly, why the hell does any of that justify the harassment of another human being?

It doesn't, which is why I don't. I just know I am innocent of that so I don't need to address those issues.

You can't just say things and be believed, you know.

Funny of you to say that in this context...
https://twitter.com/CatiLynx/status/511019584992727041

It's everyone's concern. Yours more-so than mine, in fact, since the people doing the harassing are affiliated with a movement that you identify with. Which means you - yes, you - bear some responsibility, here, even if you aren't actively participating in the harassment.

Get your own house in order.

No, it is in fact less my concern than anyone elses'; I did not commit any harassement and I do not condone it either. Fact of the matter is though that you fundamentally failed to do your homework on the topic or the movement you are talking about. #gg is not a controlled, funded or headed organization with a figurehead you can pummel, it is a formless mass of angry gamers posting away at the social media. There's going to be a few bad apples, like anywhere. Trying to crucify the entire movement on the actions of a select few is both pathetic and intellectually dishonest to the core.

There is no 'house' to keep in order. It's a swarm and there is no queen bee. It's an angry grassroots movement, everyone in it is in it for their own ideology but we all share a common target: corruption in videogames. There's going to be hurt butts and hurt feelings on the way there but that's the way it goes.

False equivalence. And you know it. Stop derailing.

No, I think it's pretty much the same; both is an insubstantial, unfounded threat made on the internet. Well, where is the source? Where was the threat made? Got any pictures or at the least a tweet?

[Matt]

If you found someone in your ranks who was committing harassment or issuing threats, either because that was the goal or in a moment of weakness, I hope you would tell them that that behavior is unacceptable. I think that's the least we can ask from any movement.

There are definitely people within gamergate condemning harassment.



...









...however the movement itself is disorganized, decentralized, lacking in accountability, and inextricable from it's origin as a harassment campaign targeting Zoe Quinn. Anonymity is used by those within the movement as a shield to absolve them of responsibility for the actions of those others within the movement -- rendering condemnations utterly ineffectual.

-m

[Metcarfre]

That this woman is in fear about some words spoken on the internet is sad but not really of my concern.

This pretty much summarizes the exact problem with your "movement".

Actually, I'm going to expand on that; this not summarizes the problem with your "movement", it summarizes the problem with you, personally.

[Arclight_Dynamo]

Funny of you to say that in this context...
https://twitter.com/CatiLynx/status/511019584992727041

...did you seriously just try to draw that "equivalency"? Seriously? Seriously?

I'm done talking to you.

[Amake]

I'd rather say "discredit" than "crucify", except you never had any credibility to begin with. It's like you say, a shapeless mess of individuals driven by negative emotions, except somehow nominally united under one banner. Kind of like if all the world's belligerent drunks were tweeting "party on" at the same time. But you elect to speak on their behalf, and to defend their smelly vomit and aimless vandalism and the occasional rape and beating as part of a positive movement, and whether you intend to or no, flakaffe, you help legitimize them. I choose to believe you're a budding psychopath incapable of empathy and only working to serve your own interests because that strikes me as kinder than the alternative of believing you're that fucking stupid.

[flakaffe]

Funny of you to say that in this context...
https://twitter.com/CatiLynx/status/511019584992727041

...did you seriously just say that? Seriously? Seriously?

I'm done talking to you.

Ahh, the offense trick! Yes, I love it, I also read the COINTELPRO guide on how to shut up dissenting voices and how to slide forums. It does not work on me exactly.
http://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5

Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation
[...]
2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit.

Unless you are willing to actually adress the points I made I believe I also would like to not continue to engage in discussion with you.

[Matt]

flakaffe, it is abundantly clear that no one is interested in addressing your "points", so if you no longer care to continue this discussion, I would encourage you to not.

-m

[korvys]

Friends, I would like to remind everyone who feels like engaging in something that is TOTALLY CENSORSHIP and therefore the worst thing in the world, the Foe list exists, and I highly recommend it's use in CENSORING the TRUTH

[flakaffe]

I'd rather say "discredit" than "crucify", except you never had any credibility to begin with. It's like you say, a shapeless mess of individuals driven by negative emotions, except somehow nominally united under one banner. Kind of like if all the world's belligerent drunks were tweeting "party on" at the same time. But you elect to speak on their behalf, and to defend their smelly vomit and aimless vandalism and the occasional rape and beating as part of a positive movement, and whether you intend to or no, flakaffe, you help legitimize them. I choose to believe you're a budding psychopath incapable of empathy and only working to serve your own interests because that strikes me as kinder than the alternative of believing you're that fucking stupid.

Well I am certainly something, though I can't say that I am any of the names you just called me. I am simply a gamer who's fed up at being fed the dross that these journalists have been putting out; agressively against my hobby for years now and in the most recent times against myself and the identity I chose to associate with. I've been labeled a racist, a misogynist, a sexist, a manbaby, a manchild, a relic of the past and in more than fourteen articles by now officially declared as dead.

I know I must look like some evil from your position as an uninvolved bystander but practically speaking this slander heaped on me every time I go check the hashtag on twitter and the newest revelations on 8chan has eroded my sympathy for these people and their publications. You don't call someone all the names of the colorful rainbow and then expect them to pity you when you say that someone was mean to you; not outside politics anyway.

flakaffe, it is abundantly clear that no one is interested in addressing your "points", so if you no longer care to continue this discussion, I would encourage you to not.

-m

Sure. I am not here to disturb, just to give a bit of insight. I'm not as politically correct as people would like i suppose.

[Metcarfre]

Not so much "politically correct" as "not sociopathic".

[Deedles]

The articles that I've read that said that "Gamers are dead" were referring to the figurative death of an old stereotype that 'gamers' are only white males, because they're so much more now(White, black, female male, heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, transsexual, gender neutral, genderfluid. And also play a wide variety of different games, from anything between Candy Crush to Legend of Zelda, to Call of Duty, to Shadows of Mordor). So to me it looks like you've only been told the phrase and that it somehow means 'death to the white male gamer' and then rolled with it instead of actually reading the articles yourself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is sincerely what it sounds like, because the 'Gamers are dead' that you refer to sounds nothing like the one I've read about.

[MotorWaffle]

I always thought of the term "gamer" as something that was cooked up in an advertising meeting. There are so many types of games that attract so many different kinds of people that lumping them into one heading seemed like assuming shared characteristics between country fans and metalheads for the sole reason that they both liked music.

[Amake]

I know I must look like some evil from your position as an uninvolved bystander

No, just a self-involved entitled lazy jerk. I mean I was in the exact same position you were some ten years ago, fed up with games journalism. My solution then was to be more discriminating about what I read. It has worked well.

[Matt]

I always thought of the term "gamer" as something that was cooked up in an advertising meeting. There are so many types of games that attract so many different kinds of people that lumping them into one heading seemed like assuming shared characteristics between country fans and metalheads for the sole reason that they both liked music.

Congratulations: you have just summarized the argument put forth by Leigh Alexander in her "'Gamers' are Over" article better than most of GamerGate understood it.

-m