Soldiers in Games and Pop Culture

[Dutch guy]

As I've recently had this discussion with someone IRL and it somewhat ties into the "seeing soldiers as faceless expendable killing machines:

Whats up with the total ignoring of the German losses in WW1 and WW2 (or any of the other opposing forces in any of the "country on country" conflicts in the last centuries)? I get that they were "the bad guys" and that many of them did pretty horrible things. In the end though, most of them were young men, ripped from their home by getting drafted into the army. Many of them simply fought for their country because they believed it was the right thing to do or because the choice was fight or get killed by your own people.

I don't think it is right to commemorate them the same way we honor the fallen allied soldiers. But at the very least we should remember, war costs a lot of lives on all sides. There are many tragic stories on the German side of the war as well. Yet, because "history is written by the victor" we are in danger of losing a lot of information from the other side of the war.

I can type this from the comfort of a free country. Not having actively lived through a war I have the option of looking back, unbiased by hatred from watching everything around me get destroyed. But is it really not the more honorable thing to do to look at the entire conflict from both sides? So that we can learn from it.

[Shandi]

I'm glad you thought to bring that up.
My father, who isn't a part of my life, was born in Germany to German parents who experienced the war. I couldn't tell you how that affected them and him, but I'm sure it did, and they're very dysfunctional people. I also have a close family friend who managed to come out a wonderful person, despite having been recruited to sift through destroyed homes with dead in them before he was 10. It must have been a very hard time, with lasting ill effects. A German international student I got to know a few years back said she and her peers grew up with the impression they were "the bad guys" on an international stage and to feel guilt.
It goes without saying that war is hard on all sides, and feeling like or being seen as "the bad guys" would come with its own complications to that.

My favourite story from the Second World War was on a French Immersion Social Studies documentary I had to watch in class in early high school. A bunch of allied vets are in a pub sharing stories, and once everyone's comfortable, the interviewer gets around to a tough question. He asks the men about rumours of traitors at Juno beach. Several of the men broke down in tears on camera and finally explained that there were bodies and injured everywhere. So many dying men were calling out for help that the medics, trained to save lives, couldn't bring themselves to discriminate. Some of them helped however they could, and didn't always check what uniform someone had on.

I think that's a tragic story, but with a great message. If the Canadian soldiers at Juno Beach could recognize the humanity of their supposed enemy, we all should.

[AdmiralMemo]

Medical aid for any soldiers, allied or otherwises, is not being a traitor. I don't care what anyone says. They might become a POW, at worst, but you should help them no matter what. Living as a POW is better than dying in agony.

[Arclight_Dynamo]

Providing medical aid for enemy combatants is, in fact, a legal obligation of all signatories to the Geneva Conventions.

Not providing such aid is a war crime.

Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armies in the Field, Chapter I, Article 1 (1929, and therefore the relevant Convention during the Second World War):

Officers and soldiers and other persons officially attached to the armed forces who are wounded or sick shall be respected and protected in all circumstances; they shall be treated with humanity and cared for medically, without distinction of nationality, by the belligerent in whose power they may be.

Convention (I) for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field, Chapter II, Article 12 (1949, and the Convention currently in force):

Members of the armed forces and other persons mentioned in the following Article, who are wounded or sick, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances.
They shall be treated humanely and cared for by the Party to the conflict in whose power they may be, without any adverse distinction founded on sex, race, nationality, religion, political opinions, or any other similar criteria. Any attempts upon their lives, or violence to their persons, shall be strictly prohibited; in particular, they shall not be murdered or exterminated, subjected to torture or to biological experiments; they shall not wilfully be left without medical assistance and care, nor shall conditions exposing them to contagion or infection be created.
Only urgent medical reasons will authorize priority in the order of treatment to be administered.

[Shandi]

Tell that to the folks in the doc, I guess.

[Darkflame]

As I've recently had this discussion with someone IRL and it somewhat ties into the "seeing soldiers as faceless expendable killing machines:

Whats up with the total ignoring of the German losses in WW1 and WW2 (or any of the other opposing forces in any of the "country on country" conflicts in the last centuries)? I get that they were "the bad guys" and that many of them did pretty horrible things. In the end though, most of them were young men, ripped from their home by getting drafted into the army. Many of them simply fought for their country because they believed it was the right thing to do or because the choice was fight or get killed by your own people.

I don't think it is right to commemorate them the same way we honor the fallen allied soldiers. But at the very least we should remember, war costs a lot of lives on all sides. There are many tragic stories on the German side of the war as well. Yet, because "history is written by the victor" we are in danger of losing a lot of information from the other side of the war.

I can type this from the comfort of a free country. Not having actively lived through a war I have the option of looking back, unbiased by hatred from watching everything around me get destroyed. But is it really not the more honorable thing to do to look at the entire conflict from both sides? So that we can learn from it.

+1

Crazily one of the few things I have ever seen that gave any sympathy to Nazis was the film "Iron Sky". Portraying (moon) Nazis as heavily indoctrinated and believing in the cause, rather then outright evil.
And the fact it takes a amateurish crowd-funded silly film about Nazis from the moon to put some humanism to a drama is ridiculous.

[Metcarfre]

Soooo... I guess no one else had to read "All Quiet On The Western Front" in high school then?

[My pseudonym is Ix]

Not in school, read it on my own a few years ago. One of my favourite bits of literature, made more significant by its simple willingness to actually talk about a piece of history so many tried to avoid, because it is impossible to make it sound just.

[AdmiralMemo]

It was given to me by a friend a couple of years ago. It burnt up in my house before I ever got a chance to read it, though.

[Strazdas]

have been playing Spec Ops: The line recently and it really is a unique game in this regard.

there seems to be a reason for everytihng you do yet you end up being the villian. the characters change based on your choices and what you do in the game and even the tops during loading screen change. for example one near the end says "its all your fault". it truly is a great emotional rollercoaster that takes a bit different perspective about soldiers as fodder. essentially you do that and then it makes you feel bad about doing that.

As far as soldier fodder in games in general goes, well as you point out that happens in all groups. and it will continue to happen as lnog as we wont be having AI good enough so we dont need to throw 50 soldiers to beat 1 player.

As far as them being thrown at it, well, its realistic. generals throw soldiers to death all the time. and lets not fool ourselves in belief that anyone upstairs really care for common soldiers, only if they will have enough to throw at the next target of opportunity.