The Force Awakens.

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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby AdmiralMemo » 05 Jan 2016, 06:09

That was already fully commented on when Disney bought the franchise. :-D
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 05 Jan 2016, 06:11

I wonder if Kylo and Rey might end up founding an order of Force users who stand on the line of light & dark. They strive for true balance, since there must always be Jedi and Sith otherwise. Fulfilling the prophecy that Anikan will bring balance to the force (through his grand children).
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby RoboNixon » 05 Jan 2016, 06:29

I know its no longer canon, but Jacen Solo did grapple with whether the Force was inherently light/dark or if it was the individuals application of those powers that made something good or bad. He later became a Sith, so not sure they'll go this route in the movies.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 05 Jan 2016, 08:03

The Jedi do seem flawed. Their apathetic attitude to things do seem to conflict with the idea of righteousness.

And the Sith's passion can be a good thing, just it seems to always comes across as evil.

To me, both sides are bad, in their own ways. How many times have we played a StarWars RPG blind trying to be nice people and accidentally picked up Dark Side points because your concept of goodness conflicts with the Jedi code?
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby RoboNixon » 05 Jan 2016, 08:14

That's why if they had a Force Lightning dialogue option, I always picked it. Not ambigous at all. That's why I loved the EU. The Jedi were more like real humans and less monastic. Makes them more interesting as characters. I like where Kylo's arc might go because he feels like a real person.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby MotorWaffle » 06 Jan 2016, 17:17

CamelKnackRambleHort wrote:
MotorWaffle wrote:I should clarify, the reason Rey's hypercompetence and quick force-learning abilities bug me is that the core difference between sith and jedi, literally the heart of the drama, is that the sith are supposed to quickly become very powerful. The speed and ease is the temptation. It's supposed to take a jedi a LONG time of dedication and training to step to them.


I don't really agree with that. I mean, the first time around Luke is with Yoda only a matter of days before Yoda instructs him to be able to lift his X-wing, and according to yoda the reason he fails is because he doesn't believe. Luke, like Anikin before him, is plauged with fear, doubt and greed. Their world view is one where power is of paramount importance, even if their intention is to do good. To them, the force is merely a means to an end. A method of obtaining power. It is little more than an especially effective weapon. This is why Luke has such difficulty harnessing the light side.

The dark side is a short cut to power in that you don't have to rise above the particular flaws very common among those who desire power. You can take what scraps of skill you have with the force and twist and pervert it, gaining some impressive abilities in the process but ultimately missing the point and deeply corrupting yourself in the process.

The issue is not if the dark or light side is more powerful. The mistake is in thinking of the force in such narrow terms of power at all.

But that's only my take on it. I think nailing the force down to strict rules on what Jedi can do and Sith can do removes the only actually interesting part of the force. Otherwise it is just a hokey religion space wizards came up with to explain their magic so they could feel special.


You're right, Luke did lift his X-Wing (slightly) out of the bog before dropping it halfway. Then he went and fought a Sith, despite Yoda's warning that he wasn't ready, and got destroyed.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby JayBlanc » 07 Jan 2016, 05:53

Fayili wrote:
Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:Some people think Poe is sexually attracted to Fin. Evidence being telling Fin to keep his jacket due to it looking good on him and then biting his lip suggestively. I didn't notice this subtext until it was pointed out and I looked it up


I mean, the minute I saw this on the screen I turned to IX and made a hand-smooshing-together motion and went "now kiss". I was shipping them the moment they escaped, tho. It's too good not to.


Time for a little fandom history lesson.

Ever wonder why there's no big history of Slash Fic between Luke and Han? In an era that the concept of Slash Fic started, with Kirk/Spock fics being distributed in hand printed fanzines at fandom conventions?

Because George Lucas hated it. Absolutely hated it. To the point of sending people to fan conventions to look for these fanzines, then serve subpoenas on the people distributing them. This led to Lucas Film being actively hostile to fan-created works of any kind for most of the history of the franchise. Only changing relatively recently.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 07 Jan 2016, 06:05

I just presumed that homosexuality was considered less normal back then.
Besides, the two guys were very interested in Leia, or "The Princess".

Poe has shown no interest towards anyone else. So, at the moment, you can read into Poe's response to Fin as being sexually interested.

Kinda interesting that Lucas went Grinchy. However, I can understand why he might though. If you go on Reddit threads for fandoms and see some of the slash/fics people do with no grounding, it is challenging to not be like "BUT U CANT11!!!1". Imagine if it was happening to your own creations.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby RoboNixon » 07 Jan 2016, 06:48

There is a precedent for gay characters in Star Wars. Karen Traviss, who wrote several EU books (Amazing author btw), has stated that 2 of her Mandalorian characters were gay.

But while that may be the subtext for Poe Dameron, I seriously doubt they will explicitly acknowledge his orientation if he is homosexual. This franchise is a cash cow, and Disney likely won't risk reactionary parents boycotting the films. They are willing to push Platonic love between 2 women (Maleficent) but probably not overt homosexuality. Personally, if Poe is gay that's fine with me as long as we get more awesome dogfights.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby CamelKnackRambleHort » 07 Jan 2016, 09:40

MotorWaffle wrote:
CamelKnackRambleHort wrote:
MotorWaffle wrote:I should clarify, the reason Rey's hypercompetence and quick force-learning abilities bug me is that the core difference between sith and jedi, literally the heart of the drama, is that the sith are supposed to quickly become very powerful. The speed and ease is the temptation. It's supposed to take a jedi a LONG time of dedication and training to step to them.


I don't really agree with that. I mean, the first time around Luke is with Yoda only a matter of days before Yoda instructs him to be able to lift his X-wing, and according to yoda the reason he fails is because he doesn't believe. Luke, like Anikin before him, is plauged with fear, doubt and greed. Their world view is one where power is of paramount importance, even if their intention is to do good. To them, the force is merely a means to an end. A method of obtaining power. It is little more than an especially effective weapon. This is why Luke has such difficulty harnessing the light side.

The dark side is a short cut to power in that you don't have to rise above the particular flaws very common among those who desire power. You can take what scraps of skill you have with the force and twist and pervert it, gaining some impressive abilities in the process but ultimately missing the point and deeply corrupting yourself in the process.

The issue is not if the dark or light side is more powerful. The mistake is in thinking of the force in such narrow terms of power at all.

But that's only my take on it. I think nailing the force down to strict rules on what Jedi can do and Sith can do removes the only actually interesting part of the force. Otherwise it is just a hokey religion space wizards came up with to explain their magic so they could feel special.


You're right, Luke did lift his X-Wing (slightly) out of the bog before dropping it halfway. Then he went and fought a Sith, despite Yoda's warning that he wasn't ready, and got destroyed.


Yeah? I am really not seeing your point? Like, I am not trying to be hostile, just to be clear, I really just do not understand what you are saying here. Luke fighting Vader was definitely a thing that happened. Luke lost to a vastly more experienced opponent who had wisely stacked the odds heavily against Luke. Luke completely failed to overcome his weaknesses that prevented him from properly using the force before fighting Vader, who had been practicing with the force for nearly half a century.

Are you trying to draw a comparison between Luke vs Vader and Rey vs Kylo Ren?

Because I actually agree that the fights are pretty similar, just probably in the exact opposite way you are thinking. Kylo Ren foolishly charged headlong into a situation where his defeat was all but inevitable. The fight was stacked so incredibly heavily against Kylo Ren it is amazing he managed to even defeat Finn, let alone nearly defeat Rey right after. Hell, it was amazing he could walk. If Chewie had been around instead of retrieving the Falcon he would have been dead for sure. Kylo Ren, like Luke before him, was foolish and he paid the price of a devastating loss. In both fights an inexperienced force user overestimates their ability and walks into defeat.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby Bebop Man » 07 Jan 2016, 13:32

I wonder if Hux is short for Huxley.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby Bebop Man » 07 Jan 2016, 13:42

Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:Kinda interesting that Lucas went Grinchy. However, I can understand why he might though. If you go on Reddit threads for fandoms and see some of the slash/fics people do with no grounding, it is challenging to not be like "BUT U CANT11!!!1". Imagine if it was happening to your own creations.


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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 07 Jan 2016, 14:21

Understanding doesn't neccerily mean agreeing with:P
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby BlueChloroplast » 07 Jan 2016, 22:28

Star Trek also had deliberate subtext between Kirk and Spock. The actor's deliberate body language and being based off Alexander the Great and Hepation is proof. See The Ships Closet on youtube for info and a laugh.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby Master Gunner » 08 Jan 2016, 17:52

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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby BlueChloroplast » 08 Jan 2016, 22:50

I'm not saying I'm not shipping all ships (including ones that can't be canon at the same time). I've seen the gif where Poe was checking Fin out when he told him to keep the jacket. I feel the ship is more interesting than Ray/Finn but that one seemed pretty heavy handedly indicated with the cinematography shooting them very close together.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby Avistew » 09 Jan 2016, 02:52

My preferred ship is Rey, Finn and Poe (currently as a V, although if Rey and Poe interact more I guess it could be a triad) but if it ends up monogamous (which, seriously, is more than likely, it was apparently shocking already to have a female and a non-white guy as main characters, so imagine how people would react to canon non-monogamy), I think Finn/Poe is more interesting. Rey could be the interest that seems more obvious at first but doesn't actually lead to a relationship, kind of like Luke/Leia (although for different reasons) and Finn/Poe would be the Leia/Han.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 09 Jan 2016, 04:05

I felt like it was Rey <=> Fin and Poe => Fin.

I would find it very realistic for my personal experience if Poe is indeed attracted to Fin, but Fin simply feels nothing like that in return.
Then you have Poe deciding how much value is Fin's friendship, then decide that, what they have is very awesome in itself, and it's a shame they can't ever be together romantically.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby JustAName » 09 Jan 2016, 04:39

Yeah, actually, yesterday I was saying I kinda want a triad with ace Rey romantically involved with the other two, who are definitely not ace with one another. But I like triad ships.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby Jamfalcon » 11 Jan 2016, 23:28

So, my girlfriend is way too talented and did this, which I thought was worth sharing here.
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Pun courtesy of yours truly. :roll:
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby RoboNixon » 12 Jan 2016, 05:39

That's pretty awesome
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby Darkflame » 16 Jan 2016, 11:11

JayBlanc wrote:Because George Lucas hated it. Absolutely hated it. To the point of sending people to fan conventions to look for these fanzines, then serve subpoenas on the people distributing them. This led to Lucas Film being actively hostile to fan-created works of any kind for most of the history of the franchise. Only changing relatively recently.


Well, if that's true, even "relatively recently" has to be pointed out is still old - he was giving out actual fanfilm awards at least as far back as 2002. I watched a lot of them, many great things there.

I think its more likely he was just always against sexually explicit fanfiction as that matches this letter;

George Lucas and his corporation, Lucasfilm, allowed an announcement through the fan grapevine (at science ficion conventions and in fanzines) that they would not take action against Star Wars fan fiction writers and editors. Lucas made only one stipulation, that the fans avoid publishing sexually explicit SW stories. According to one SW fanzine editor, Beverly Clark, in a letter to me: "Lucasfilm is keeping tabs on people doing SW zines and satires...Lucas himself had let it be known that he did not like X-rated material; specifically he did not like gay stories, and he would personally hang the first person to write or print a gay SW story.

http://fanlore.org/wiki/Fandom_vs_The_C ... d_Fair_Use

If true, a argument could be made - at least back in the early 80s - that Lucus was homophobic, but it looks like its not "against all fanworks" and he later changed his mind, so much as only not liking some aspects of it, and leaving the legal status fuzzy.

Of course, on the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me if Lucus wanted to ban all writing in all forms and retire to be a hermit after reading Star Wars: Episode VIII: A NUDE Hope.
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby Darkflame » 16 Jan 2016, 11:12

Anyway, finally saw TFA.
My views, probably not very original;
Positives;

+ characters/small scale interactions
+ relationship aspect and returning characters were well handled, I feared it would be too forced or chessy
+ some nice environments/settings
+ I liked Maz
+ I liked the dream/visions when she first touchs the lightsaber
+ I liked the force-frozen energy beam at the start. I have seen this done before in other sci-fis, but it was still cool.
+ Likewise the bloodbending.
+ Overall very enjoyable, despite the following;

Negatives

- Big threat retread. Worse, a retread of a retread.
- And not just the big threat, so much was just repeating scenes we have seen before.

- Really? The big bad hocks the projector up to make themselves look big. Inferiority complex much? :P

- Reys plot could have used more work in regards to her force awareness. She masters controll of people far too easily.....yet she doesn't seem to feel anything when a whole solar-system of people get killed?
Imho, they should have made that the moment she realizes the extent she is linked into everything. Also, make her escape some other way, and have her pulling the lightsaber towards her the first major use of her ability's. I think that progression would have worked better and would have been more of a impact.

- Directing; Lucas would have done a better job. *gasp* I know I said it. Abrams did nothing terrible, and certainly the writing and everything else was better then the prequels. But in terms of cinematography he is too quick. Especially near the start. You have wonderful landscapes - hold on them a bit! Not every cut has to be 2 seconds max! He has the action done great,but he needs to also lets us have some of the wonder!


Oh, and Andy Serkis did a great job with BB8 :P
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby Elomin Sha » 16 Jan 2016, 17:36

Serkis was Snoke (hologram guy)..
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Re: The Force Awakens.

Postby King Kool » 16 Jan 2016, 17:43

No, he was the guy inside the Han Solo costume.
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