Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald Trump

Drop by and talk about anything you want. This is where all cheese-related discussions should go
Forecedreject
Posts: 12
Joined: 03 Oct 2015, 19:25
First Video: Friday Nights: Untap

Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald Trump

Postby Forecedreject » 09 Feb 2016, 00:39

So...this is a politics thread. Politics is well...a deep rabbit hole to go into. So this topic may get heated and involved, I myself will probably use some rather strong language but hopefully will maintain civility.

I suspect that we have a mix of nationalities on these forums, so I'd like to make it clear I'm approaching this as someone who lives in the United States.

So I have a vague fear of something called Donald Trump. I'm normally apolitical, as a big fan of Lovecraftian horror and a nihilist, I find it difficult to invest in political ideologies, however Trump scares me. Not because of his frightening policies but because he has the power to put those policies in motion. Because he seems like he is actually capable of being elected. There are two big fears I'm seeing that make me believe that.

"Nobody takes him seriously," True and untrue, both are problematic. There are people who take Trump seriously, the rather startling amount of people who are voting for him in the polls and elsewhere. His opposition doesn't tend take him seriously though, which is an issue. People don't see Trump as a threat because he feels too radical to even be considered. My peers and family sort of just laugh him off. But just because he's radical doesn't mean he doesn't have power. He definitely has influence, definitely has power over people. Just look at how he's been rising in the polls. Those are things his opposition should pay attention to, things his opposition should be taking seriously and speaking against rather than riding off. Complacency is very dangerous.

"Who would support this guy? Nobody would vote for this guy, he's too radical. The only people who would support him are other radicals." But that's exactly who's supporting him. Radicals who don't normally vote, because normal candidates are too nuanced. He gets voters who don't vote because he scratches their exact itch, with making compromises, with apology.

But Trump is also getting nonradicals too. How? Through simple opinions, by talking like a 4th grader. Trump's ideas are simple. Horrifying, but simple. It does away with the obfuscation often associated with politics and makes them readable. Trump also speaks to the darker opinions, the biases and insecurities of others that society and rationale normally has us withhold. This is why people find radicals fascinating, this is why the radicals theologians or social activists are the ones that get the media attention. They speak openly and simply about things that are normally taboo. For some like myself, this radicalism resonates adversely. For others it taps into fears and prejudices they have but are afraid to express. Then it gives those prejudices and fears a voice and an agent, appealing to say the least. The amount of people who are seeing Trump as this kind agent is terrifying me.
User avatar
AdmiralMemo
Posts: 7337
Joined: 27 Nov 2011, 18:29
First Video: Unskippable: Eternal Sonata
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Contact:

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby AdmiralMemo » 09 Feb 2016, 03:26

I currently have no fear regarding Trump being elected. Your fears are certainly based on valid evidence, and what you're saying is true. However, he's only pulling about 40% of the Republican vote.

You're right in saying that the Democrats aren't taking him seriously, and they really should. And, credit where credit is due, Trump has one or two good ideas that I'd agree with. But everyone has one or two good ideas I'd agree with, at least, so that's just statistical normality and nothing to be concerned about. I think everyone should really consider what Trump is saying, and consider whether that's the direction they want to put the US towards. (Unfortunately, the average US citizen is pretty dumb, and most of them don't consider things, which is a real societal problem much larger than any political woes.)

I don't think there's going to be a President Trump if the Democrats have anything to say about it, and because I don't think he can sway enough moderate Republicans and swing voters to get elected. There are two ways I can see us ending up with a President Trump. The first is if something unforeseen happens between now and the election. That's just one of the so-called "unknown unknowns" and there's no way to predict those. The second is if I'm grossly underestimating the amount of gerrymandering in other states. I know Maryland is so heavily gerrymandered that my vote makes no difference. Maryland is voting Democrat, no question. (The 2-to-1 population difference of Democrats/Republicans translates to a 7-to-1 electoral difference due to gerrymandering. That's just frickin' outrageous.)

The other issue that I see that says we shouldn't be afraid of President Trump is that, on the chance he does get elected, very few of his ideas will be implemented. When is Trump effective? When he's a despot. He's a despot in business because he has complete, ultimate control of the business. The US President doesn't have that. The US President needs to use cooperation to get things done, and that's not how Trump works. Trump doesn't cooperate at all. The only thing President Trump would be effective at doing is to stalling progress for 4 years.

So, don't be afraid of President Trump 2016. What I'd be afraid of is President Trump 2020. (As in "Your fears are still valid, but I think you're a bit premature in panicking.") Whether or not he gets elected, if he's still relevant and viable in 4 years, then that indicates that the opinion of the country has moved enough for small shifts to become the norm, and traction has been built by then.

All of this political stuff that's happening right now is simply the fall-out of the more radical polarization of the country that has happened since 2000. This is why the radicals on all sides are coming out of the woodwork. You not only have Trump, but Sanders as well. 8 or 16 years ago, no one would've considered that Sanders' platform would've even had a chance, and yet now, he's breaking about even in the polls with HRC.

My dad's been saying it since 2000, and I'm beginning to think he's right. The trajectory the US is currently on may end up leading us into another civil war. The stuff in Iraq/Afghanistan may have delayed it a bit, but if we don't get our acts together soon, it may become inevitable at some point.
Graham wrote:The point is: Nyeh nyeh nyeh. I'm an old man.
LRRcast wrote:Paul: That does not answer that question at all.
James: Who cares about that question? That's a good answer.

Image
User avatar
MagisterMystax
Posts: 126
Joined: 14 May 2014, 09:03
First Video: The Innistrad hat draft on MTGO academy

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby MagisterMystax » 09 Feb 2016, 03:50

AdmiralMemo wrote:All of this political stuff that's happening right now is simply the fall-out of the more radical polarization of the country that has happened since 2000. This is why the radicals on all sides are coming out of the woodwork. You not only have Trump, but Sanders as well. 8 or 16 years ago, no one would've considered that Sanders' platform would've even had a chance, and yet now, he's breaking about even in the polls with HRC.


This is probably a difference between the two sides of the Atlantic, because I would not call Bernie Sanders a radical at all. I guess I would call him the first major actual left-wing candidate America has had running for a long time. If you look at their policies, most of the Democrats are moderate right-wingers or centrists at best, at least in my perspective of the political system. Meanwhile, I would consider just about every Republican, not just Trump, a dangerous right-wing extremist. Once again, being on the opposite side of the ocean probably plays a major part in this.
I stream video games every friday at 19:00 GMT, at http://www.twitch.tv/magistermystax
User avatar
Merrymaker_Mortalis
Posts: 7223
Joined: 24 Feb 2010, 19:19
First Video: ENN's First Episode on Escapist
Location: Wales

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 09 Feb 2016, 04:02

I may face the decision of choosing between two countries with shit politics.
Britain or Spain.

Britain seems to be going to hold a referendum about leaving Europe.(boo).
If Britain decides, and chooses yes, but Scotland/Northern Ireland/Wales voted to stay in, then that's going to be a shit party frankly. It will feel like as nations were are being bitchslapped around by England.

Parliament is doing a lot of dumb stuff, and I have no idea how much affects Wales. I have immense compassion on those affected in England regardless. Basically poor punishments.


Spain is actively trying to stop Catalonia having its referendum vote at all (boo).
DennyR
Posts: 75
Joined: 19 Jan 2016, 14:23
First Video: Installation Anxiety

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby DennyR » 09 Feb 2016, 04:05

MagisterMystax wrote:
AdmiralMemo wrote:All of this political stuff that's happening right now is simply the fall-out of the more radical polarization of the country that has happened since 2000. This is why the radicals on all sides are coming out of the woodwork. You not only have Trump, but Sanders as well. 8 or 16 years ago, no one would've considered that Sanders' platform would've even had a chance, and yet now, he's breaking about even in the polls with HRC.


This is probably a difference between the two sides of the Atlantic, because I would not call Bernie Sanders a radical at all. I guess I would call him the first major actual left-wing candidate America has had running for a long time. If you look at their policies, most of the Democrats are moderate right-wingers or centrists at best, at least in my perspective of the political system. Meanwhile, I would consider just about every Republican, not just Trump, a dangerous right-wing extremist. Once again, being on the opposite side of the ocean probably plays a major part in this.

Yeah, I'd imagine so. I'm in Europe, and I can't see Sanders as a radical.

We're having our elections this year (general election, not presidential but because our president is essentially just a figurehead this one is the more important). Big social issue for this election (at least depending on who you ask) is the 8th amendment, or the constitutional ban on abortion. Quite a lot of politicians aren't stating their position on the matter for fear of angering potential voters that would disagree with them, which is extremely frustrating when you just want a straight answer.
User avatar
AdmiralMemo
Posts: 7337
Joined: 27 Nov 2011, 18:29
First Video: Unskippable: Eternal Sonata
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Contact:

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby AdmiralMemo » 09 Feb 2016, 04:10

DennyR wrote:
MagisterMystax wrote:
AdmiralMemo wrote:All of this political stuff that's happening right now is simply the fall-out of the more radical polarization of the country that has happened since 2000. This is why the radicals on all sides are coming out of the woodwork. You not only have Trump, but Sanders as well. 8 or 16 years ago, no one would've considered that Sanders' platform would've even had a chance, and yet now, he's breaking about even in the polls with HRC.
This is probably a difference between the two sides of the Atlantic, because I would not call Bernie Sanders a radical at all. I guess I would call him the first major actual left-wing candidate America has had running for a long time. If you look at their policies, most of the Democrats are moderate right-wingers or centrists at best, at least in my perspective of the political system. Meanwhile, I would consider just about every Republican, not just Trump, a dangerous right-wing extremist. Once again, being on the opposite side of the ocean probably plays a major part in this.
Yeah, I'd imagine so. I'm in Europe, and I can't see Sanders as a radical.
But you would agree that he's a "radical" comparatively at least, right? At least a "radical change from what we've had before" right?
Graham wrote:The point is: Nyeh nyeh nyeh. I'm an old man.
LRRcast wrote:Paul: That does not answer that question at all.
James: Who cares about that question? That's a good answer.

Image
DennyR
Posts: 75
Joined: 19 Jan 2016, 14:23
First Video: Installation Anxiety

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby DennyR » 09 Feb 2016, 04:18

Yeah, I kinda get it from that point of view.
User avatar
Dutch guy
Posts: 5197
Joined: 11 Feb 2008, 17:12
First Video: History of Halo
Location: Southern Dutch Colonies

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Dutch guy » 09 Feb 2016, 04:45

Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:I may face the decision of choosing between two countries with shit politics.
Britain or Spain.

Britain seems to be going to hold a referendum about leaving Europe.(boo).
If Britain decides, and chooses yes, but Scotland/Northern Ireland/Wales voted to stay in, then that's going to be a shit party frankly. It will feel like as nations were are being bitchslapped around by England.

Parliament is doing a lot of dumb stuff, and I have no idea how much affects Wales. I have immense compassion on those affected in England regardless. Basically poor punishments.


Spain is actively trying to stop Catalonia having its referendum vote at all (boo).



IMHO there really is no advantage for England to stay in the EU or any reason for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to stay in the EU if Britain decides to leave. The EU is fast on its way to becoming an undemocratic oligarchy run by politician so far removed from reality they can't effectively manage it. And they are fast on the way to destroying the EU economy altogether with ineffective politics and monetary policy.
THE DUTCH!! THE DUTCH AGAIN!!!!!
Elomin Sha wrote:Dutch guy is the King of the Dutch.
User avatar
Merrymaker_Mortalis
Posts: 7223
Joined: 24 Feb 2010, 19:19
First Video: ENN's First Episode on Escapist
Location: Wales

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 09 Feb 2016, 05:05

On the flip side, the EU policies on the Environment keep a lot of the natural habitats of Britain safe.
Darkflame
Posts: 402
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 05:06
First Video: Quantum Documentary

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Darkflame » 09 Feb 2016, 06:14

I personally think Trump is more likely to split the republican party then get elected.
It might be a good thing for the US long term, as he would have the muscle to be a third party candidate - and in the process mop up all the raciest/sexiest arsehole voters the republicans have been trying to appeal too so much.
Without that voter base to try to please they might actually become a more respectful party, and suddenly discover voters they were previously alienating.

This would give american voters a proper choice between competing political philosophies - without the baggage of so many social issues too.

IMHO there really is no advantage for England to stay in the EU


It makes it vastly harder for Cameron to spy on the population legally. Its EU laws that is preventing the mass data collection by the GCHQ.
That and, maybe, the Bill of Rights - but he wants to change that too.
http://www.fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
--
Last update; Mice,Plumbers,Animatronics and Airbenders. We also have the socials; Facebook & G+. Give us a like if you can, it all helps.
User avatar
Elomin Sha
Posts: 15773
Joined: 22 Feb 2008, 05:14
First Video: Max Effect
Location: Woodford Green, England
Contact:

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Elomin Sha » 09 Feb 2016, 08:35

NOTE FOR THIS THREAD

Okay, many of you may not know, we've had a politics thread before and that got shut down. The reason why there was a pro-republican forum goer, Yukikaze, and while he was alright in other threads he was kind of a dick in there with 'attacks' on other people's political beliefs.

Rules I would suggest:

Be cordial;
Respect what other people think even if it goes against your own ideas;
Don't try and convert someone with force, have a discussion;
No rudeness, eg. you liberal whipped pussy or gun toting warmongering tea partier, etc
and to say again don't dismiss a person with oh you just belief because blah blah blah.

Enjoy.
The most unique, nicest, and confusing individual you will get to know. Don't be stupid around me, that's my job.
https://displate.com/elominsha/galleries
If you need art, I take commissions, PM me.
User avatar
AdmiralMemo
Posts: 7337
Joined: 27 Nov 2011, 18:29
First Video: Unskippable: Eternal Sonata
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Contact:

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby AdmiralMemo » 09 Feb 2016, 15:06

Darkflame wrote:I personally think Trump is more likely to split the republican party then get elected.
Oh this is most certainly true. If Trump fulfills his word that he'd run independently if he didn't get the Republican nomination, that will absolutely split the Republican Party and almost guarantee a Democrat win this election.

And absolutely, Elomin's rules should be abided by. I'm personally very much an outsider when it comes to the general consensus of the forum, politically, religiously, and in other factors. But I'm always respectful of other's opinions, even when I don't agree with them. The main reason I get in trouble is that I'm typically a whole lot more blunt than most people like, and people might see that as an "attack" in some cases.

If I say something that offends someone, please let me know, because I also am very dense when it comes to interpersonal interactions. If I'm not told directly, I'll remain oblivious and keep on as if everything's normal. It's very rare that I ever intend to offend.
Graham wrote:The point is: Nyeh nyeh nyeh. I'm an old man.
LRRcast wrote:Paul: That does not answer that question at all.
James: Who cares about that question? That's a good answer.

Image
User avatar
Dutch guy
Posts: 5197
Joined: 11 Feb 2008, 17:12
First Video: History of Halo
Location: Southern Dutch Colonies

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Dutch guy » 09 Feb 2016, 15:36

Darkflame wrote:I personally think Trump is more likely to split the republican party then get elected.
It might be a good thing for the US long term, as he would have the muscle to be a third party candidate - and in the process mop up all the raciest/sexiest arsehole voters the republicans have been trying to appeal too so much.
Without that voter base to try to please they might actually become a more respectful party, and suddenly discover voters they were previously alienating.

This would give american voters a proper choice between competing political philosophies - without the baggage of so many social issues too.

IMHO there really is no advantage for England to stay in the EU


It makes it vastly harder for Cameron to spy on the population legally. Its EU laws that is preventing the mass data collection by the GCHQ.
That and, maybe, the Bill of Rights - but he wants to change that too.


GCHQ hasn't really been following EU OR british laws up till now anyway so I don't see how that argument stands. And it's more of an argument against Cameron than for or against staying in the EU.
THE DUTCH!! THE DUTCH AGAIN!!!!!
Elomin Sha wrote:Dutch guy is the King of the Dutch.
User avatar
Dutch guy
Posts: 5197
Joined: 11 Feb 2008, 17:12
First Video: History of Halo
Location: Southern Dutch Colonies

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Dutch guy » 09 Feb 2016, 15:38

Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:On the flip side, the EU policies on the Environment keep a lot of the natural habitats of Britain safe.


Not sure that just EU policies. Britain should be perfectly capable of maintaining its own natural habitats. (In fact, given the isolated nature of the British Isles it might actually be more capable and effecting in setting up those regulations for itself.
THE DUTCH!! THE DUTCH AGAIN!!!!!
Elomin Sha wrote:Dutch guy is the King of the Dutch.
User avatar
Merrymaker_Mortalis
Posts: 7223
Joined: 24 Feb 2010, 19:19
First Video: ENN's First Episode on Escapist
Location: Wales

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 09 Feb 2016, 16:19

Ecology is a battleground of short turn return VS long term investment. People want short term returns (destroying habitats to do stuff). I feel like stuff which the EU do prevents this.

Take farming. You have a conflict of a business VS Ecology. You have two philosophies in conflict.

Farmers see the natural world as a resource. Ecologists see the natural world is of scientific importance.
User avatar
Lord Chrusher
Can't Drink Possible Beers
Posts: 8913
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 22:53
First Video: Door to Door
Location: In England.

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Lord Chrusher » 09 Feb 2016, 16:21

My understanding is that many on the British left see EU rules as preventing the current Conservative government from doing anything too stupid.

One argument towards Britain remaining with in the EU is that if Britain were to leave the EU, Britain would likely still have to follow many EU rules with out having any say in how those rules - a similar situation to what Norway and Switzerland are currently in. Britain

Another issue is that a Brexit would quite likely mess up the peace processes in Northern Ireland. Many in both Irelands see both countries being members of the EU as making the question of whether Northern Ireland is part of the Republic of Ireland or of the United Kingdom as less pressing.

My view of the EU is slightly biased as I am paid out of an EU grant. Britain currently does fairly well out research funds from the EU and suspicion around my office is that the British government will not make up the shortfall if Britain was to leave. At least one of the profs has stated that they will leave Britain for the Continent if Britain were to leave.

Even if Britain ultimately is better off outside the European Union - something I am not convinced of - I think the process of leaving would be a colossal mess that could lead to the break up of the United Kingdom.
Image
We are all made of star dust. However we are also made of nuclear waste.
Remember to think before you post.
Image
User avatar
korvys
Posts: 2112
Joined: 29 Apr 2013, 14:48
First Video: Zero Punctuation: X-Blades/Halo Wars
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby korvys » 09 Feb 2016, 19:20

I'm not American, but I keep up anyway, since what happens in the US affects the rest of the world, so here's my take.

I don't think Trump will be president, or even the GOP nominee. Trump has more first preference votes, but as best as I can tell, far fewer second preference. That is, he's the first choice for a bunch of people, but nobody's second choice. If every other candidate dropped out of the race, I think his polling would barely go up. Chances are, he'll drop out at some point and go write a book (or pay someone to write a book with his name on it).

But the longer he sticks around, the more damage he does. The whole GOP field is (and I'm absolutely biased towards the left) nuts, but they look completely sane compared to Trump. A candidate proposing to ban people from the country for their religion should have been tossed out on his ass. But instead people are actually debating it. The fact that people are talking about it at all is ridiculous and damaging.

Also, for comic fans, I think he's acting in the role of Bob Heller, from Transmetropolian. He's got a rabid fan base, and he'll probably sell them to another candidate for favours and play king-maker.

Over on the Democrat side, honestly either Sanders or Clinton would be fine. Either would be better than any of the GOP field. I'm guessing Sanders will be the nominee, but only if he has a pretty solid majority, thanks to the whole delegate/super delegate primary system the US has going on.

It'll probably get pretty dirty, cause Clinton seems to have a lot of money behind her, and has probably made a lot of promises to people, so she can't really afford to lose. But I can't see it splitting the party, since, as I said, either would be better than any GOP candidate.

Personally, I'm waaaaaay on the side of Sanders. If only because the next President probably gets to pick 2-4 supreme court justices, and that's how progress will get made. All of his other politics I'm pretty on board with as well. There's something to be said about him being idealistic, but not being able to accomplish much due to the senate/house, but I think it's better to have someone that tries and fails than never tries at all.
"Why does Sonic chill like dawgs?" - Graham
"Causation. Still a leading cause of correlation"" - Oglaf

Google+ / Twitter / Mastodon
keybase.io
User avatar
AdmiralMemo
Posts: 7337
Joined: 27 Nov 2011, 18:29
First Video: Unskippable: Eternal Sonata
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Contact:

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby AdmiralMemo » 09 Feb 2016, 21:11

I really don't like HRC, and I don't think she'd be fine. But, no... Neither she nor Sanders would split the Democrats. I'd be fine with a Sanders-NotTrump race.
Graham wrote:The point is: Nyeh nyeh nyeh. I'm an old man.
LRRcast wrote:Paul: That does not answer that question at all.
James: Who cares about that question? That's a good answer.

Image
Forecedreject
Posts: 12
Joined: 03 Oct 2015, 19:25
First Video: Friday Nights: Untap

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Forecedreject » 10 Feb 2016, 01:46

Thank you all for keeping this to a well mannered and constructive conversation.

After reading through the thread, my fears are somewhat allayed, but still, the amount of support Trump is getting and the polarization it points towards is still disturbing to say the least. Trump presents another problem in that his campaign has helped vocalize and mobilize some radical and surprisingly populous pockets within the country. Even if or when these pockets lose, I don't think they'll take that loss sitting down.
User avatar
korvys
Posts: 2112
Joined: 29 Apr 2013, 14:48
First Video: Zero Punctuation: X-Blades/Halo Wars
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby korvys » 10 Feb 2016, 03:31

korvys wrote:Also, for comic fans, I think he's acting in the role of Bob Heller, from Transmetropolian.

For those unfamiliar with Transmetropolitan, here's the bit I'm talking about (mildly NSFW)
http://imgur.com/a/UOuqH
"Why does Sonic chill like dawgs?" - Graham
"Causation. Still a leading cause of correlation"" - Oglaf

Google+ / Twitter / Mastodon
keybase.io
User avatar
Amake
Posts: 664
Joined: 01 Apr 2013, 00:06
First Video: Le Cafe
Location: North Sweden
Contact:

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Amake » 13 Feb 2016, 06:46

As someone in a country with a party with the sole interest of getting rid of foreigners, gays and women's rights, and has seen that party grow from despised racist thugs to despised racist thugs with the third largest number of seats in parliament, and polling at second, I can say with confidence that yes, modern day Hitlers like Trump are highly electable, and it's entirely possible for a nice western democratic country to degenerate into fascism and barefaced inhumanity.

There's a simple way to get out of this spiral that's going to lead to mass extermination of Muslims and another world war that may or may not leave this planet uninhabitable, and that is to let it happen. The more complicated way I'm not entirely clear on, but it can certainly be done. It mostly involves caring about other people. Which, without trying to be melodramatic, probably makes Bernie Sanders humanity's last and best hope.

Hope which, judging by the extraordinary success of his campaign so far, is not particularly radical.
"I know I tend to sound like I think what I say is written in stone, but please ignore that. I assure you I'm well aware that I have no idea what I'm talking about." -Amake, 2015
User avatar
Merrymaker_Mortalis
Posts: 7223
Joined: 24 Feb 2010, 19:19
First Video: ENN's First Episode on Escapist
Location: Wales

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 13 Feb 2016, 13:27

Forecedreject wrote:Thank you all for keeping this to a well mannered and constructive conversation.


In Britain, "trump" means "fart".
User avatar
Dutch guy
Posts: 5197
Joined: 11 Feb 2008, 17:12
First Video: History of Halo
Location: Southern Dutch Colonies

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Dutch guy » 13 Feb 2016, 15:33

Amake wrote:As someone in a country with a party with the sole interest of getting rid of foreigners, gays and women's rights, and has seen that party grow from despised racist thugs to despised racist thugs with the third largest number of seats in parliament, and polling at second, I can say with confidence that yes, modern day Hitlers like Trump are highly electable, and it's entirely possible for a nice western democratic country to degenerate into fascism and barefaced inhumanity.

There's a simple way to get out of this spiral that's going to lead to mass extermination of Muslims and another world war that may or may not leave this planet uninhabitable, and that is to let it happen. The more complicated way I'm not entirely clear on, but it can certainly be done. It mostly involves caring about other people. Which, without trying to be melodramatic, probably makes Bernie Sanders humanity's last and best hope.

Hope which, judging by the extraordinary success of his campaign so far, is not particularly radical.


The biggest factor in averting the rise of FAR-right parties is for the current more mainstream parties to actually admit that yes, maybe there is a problem in the amount of refugees/asylum-seekers/hand-me-the-free-money-seekers entering the EU and that yes, maybe something should be done in the way these are handled. Lots and lots of people are getting really really nervous because they have very legitimate concerns with some of the people entering the country and their elected politicians are pretty much ignoring them or straight up lying to their faces about it. In the Netherlands the right-wing PVV is gaining a lot of traction (though they are typified as being extreme-right in the media I find that distinction going WAY too far, especially when seen in the light of some of the right-wing parties in some other nations). Mainly because they actually dare name some of the downsides to the mass-migration currently happening. The effects of which most politicians and political parties rather not speak about.

We have a referendum coming up about the Dutch ratification of the "trade-agreement" (it goes way beyond that) between Ukraine and the EU in April. Many Dutch politicians would rather not speak about it, don't name it, don't acknowledge it and then when they finally can't avoid the issue talk around things, speak half-truths and generally don't want to acknowledge that maybe this referendum is a GOOD thing for democracy (some even going so far as to say it's undermining the democracy. Which is ridiculous when you think about it since there is no more direct way for the people to vote on lawmaking to begin with).

When I look around in the EU and how the politicians in the EU, Germany, the UK, France, etc, etc are handling the whole refugee and economic crisis I see people so far removed from reality, and so far removed from the society they represent they can no longer effectively perform their primary function: Exercise the will of the people they represent.

When I look to the US elections I see the same thing. ALL of the candidates are wack-jobs. There is no 2 ways about it. None of them have even an iota of an idea what it's like to put in a hard days work for minimal pay, they all have no idea what it's ACTUALLY like to be a normal citizen in the US, they ALL represent various conglomerates, wealthy backers and large corporations. Whatever way the people choose, in the end it's not going to matter all that much. The people are screwed. And very slowly I think the average citizen in the western world is starting to realise this. Either politicians start listening to their people or at some point the less well thinking portion of the citizenry is going to get fed up. And things are going to get very nasty if god forbid we ever go that route (and I seriously hope we don't)
THE DUTCH!! THE DUTCH AGAIN!!!!!
Elomin Sha wrote:Dutch guy is the King of the Dutch.
User avatar
Lord Chrusher
Can't Drink Possible Beers
Posts: 8913
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 22:53
First Video: Door to Door
Location: In England.

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Lord Chrusher » 13 Feb 2016, 15:35

To make this election year even more interesting, Supreme Court justice Antonin Scalia, just died. Will Obama be able to fill the vacancy or will the Republican controlled Senate block any nominee until after the elections in November?
Image
We are all made of star dust. However we are also made of nuclear waste.
Remember to think before you post.
Image
User avatar
Dutch guy
Posts: 5197
Joined: 11 Feb 2008, 17:12
First Video: History of Halo
Location: Southern Dutch Colonies

Re: Politics and the Vague Fear of Something Called Donald T

Postby Dutch guy » 13 Feb 2016, 16:03

The senate will delay filling the seat if they don't like the candidate (which is highly likely) I think.
THE DUTCH!! THE DUTCH AGAIN!!!!!
Elomin Sha wrote:Dutch guy is the King of the Dutch.

Return to “General Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests