Codes of Conduct

[Mono_Snorsh]

it's easy to see that the reference is to "Gypsies"

Lots of things are easy to see and people's willingness to go from "easy to see" to "must be correct" is why we have tens of thousands of bullshit etymologies that spread like intellectual plagues. Some random layperson's intuition is not relevant to the actual damn academic discipline of lingusitics.

Gyp is more likely to be derived from gypsy than not. But it is not a solid derivation and there is room for disagreement.

Personally I avoid it because growing up it wasn't a word people actually used in day to day speech and thus it was no small loss to avoid it in case it has it's base in an ethnic slur.

On the other hand if niggardly was a word I used in day to day speech (I don't because it's also extremely dated) I wouldn't abandon it because the idea that it derives from a slur is objectively wrong. The feeling of being offended felt by someone offended due to their own ignorance is real but not relevant to my actions. It is the individual's job to avoid being offensive not making people offended. The former is doable if difficult. The latter requires mind-reading and not standing up against toxic behaviour if enforced with consistency.

[AdmiralMemo]

growing up it wasn't a word people actually used in day-to-day speech

See, this is where regional issues come into play, because in this area, it was a word that people used all the time, in everyday speech. Heck, I slipped the other day and said it out of habit, which I'm ashamed of. It's just a word people say because they hear it said all the time and don't think about it.

But if you live in a region where it's not, then it's going to be much easier to avoid it, simply due to lack of exposure.

[JayBlanc]

So... The R Word.

There's an episode of "Rick and Morty" where they indulge in a diatribe about it. And I hated it. It's out of place, and it feels entirely like someone hurt Justin Roiland's feelings once by asking him if he really wanted to use that word the way he does. So we get an Author Filibuster about it. And of all the borderline stuff the show gets away with, that's the thing that stuck with me as something I could really have done without, and was entirely unnecessary.

There's basically two socially acceptable ways to respond to someone giving you a note saying "I don't think you should use this word in the way you have." Ignore it or consider it. You might be wrong or correct to ignore it. It's a judgement call. But most of the time the English language is flexible enough to make replacing a word no big deal, particularly if you are using the word solely because it's a useful pejorative that you haven't really considered the origin of.

But if you really think you weren't wrong to use the word the way you used it. Just ignore the comment.

The worst thing you can possibly do is start an argument about how you should be allowed to use this word. Because if you weren't already in a hole, you just started digging one.

[MinniChi]

So... The R Word.

There's an episode of "Rick and Morty" where they indulge in a diatribe about it. And I hated it. It's out of place, and it feels entirely like someone hurt Justin Roiland's feelings once by asking him if he really wanted to use that word the way he does. So we get an Author Filibuster about it. And of all the borderline stuff the show gets away with, that's the thing that stuck with me as something I could really have done without, and was entirely unnecessary.

There's basically two socially acceptable ways to respond to someone giving you a note saying "I don't think you should use this word in the way you have." Ignore it or consider it. You might be wrong or correct to ignore it. It's a judgement call. But most of the time the English language is flexible enough to make replacing a word no big deal, particularly if you are using the word solely because it's a useful pejorative that you haven't really considered the origin of.

But if you really think you weren't wrong to use the word the way you used it. Just ignore the comment.

The worst thing you can possibly do is start an argument about how you should be allowed to use this word. Because if you weren't already in a hole, you just started digging one.

if the R word is the word I'm thinking about, the only proper time to use this word is when you're talking about the process or equipment used to make bread or other yeast doughs. That is it.

[Bebop Man]

So... The R Word.

There's an episode of "Rick and Morty" where they indulge in a diatribe about it. And I hated it. It's out of place, and it feels entirely like someone hurt Justin Roiland's feelings once by asking him if he really wanted to use that word the way he does. So we get an Author Filibuster about it. And of all the borderline stuff the show gets away with, that's the thing that stuck with me as something I could really have done without, and was entirely unnecessary.

There's basically two socially acceptable ways to respond to someone giving you a note saying "I don't think you should use this word in the way you have." Ignore it or consider it. You might be wrong or correct to ignore it. It's a judgement call. But most of the time the English language is flexible enough to make replacing a word no big deal, particularly if you are using the word solely because it's a useful pejorative that you haven't really considered the origin of.

But if you really think you weren't wrong to use the word the way you used it. Just ignore the comment.

The worst thing you can possibly do is start an argument about how you should be allowed to use this word. Because if you weren't already in a hole, you just started digging one.

I think comedians are allowed to use whatever they have at hand if they can make something funny out of it. I think Roiland can, but that may be a matter of personal taste.

[JayBlanc]

I think comedians are allowed to use whatever they have at hand if they can make something funny out of it. I think Roiland can, but that may be a matter of personal taste.

Comedy doesn't get an automatic pass. And again, most of the time it's a judgement call, but there's still things that are harmful to say "as a joke". On the other hand, often it's incredibly easy to say "no, that joke was tasteless and harmful and while my very first impulse was to find it amusing it's really not".

This is why 'edgy' comedy of this type is one of the kinds of media that decays quickly over time, as we become more accepting of groups it was okay to mock. It doesn't take that long for something that was 'funny' to become a cringeworthy 'times were different then'.

[korvys]

I don't think comedians get a pass, but I do think that context matters, and that being part of a joke is part of the context. The right joke, with the right set up/timing/delivery, with the right comedian, etc, etc, I think any topic can be funny.

But most comedians don't have all that. They're either indifferent to the topic and don't care about it's impact, do care but fail to make it work, or (most commonly) try to use the taboo nature of the topic for shock value. And in those cases, they fail, and are rightly decried for it.

[Bebop Man]

I think comedians are allowed to use whatever they have at hand if they can make something funny out of it. I think Roiland can, but that may be a matter of personal taste.

Comedy doesn't get an automatic pass. And again, most of the time it's a judgement call, but there's still things that are harmful to say "as a joke". On the other hand, often it's incredibly easy to say "no, that joke was tasteless and harmful and while my very first impulse was to find it amusing it's really not".

This is why 'edgy' comedy of this type is one of the kinds of media that decays quickly over time, as we become more accepting of groups it was okay to mock. It doesn't take that long for something that was 'funny' to become a cringeworthy 'times were different then'.

While there is such a thing as a tasteless joke, comedy is irreverent by nature. It's true that you don't just get away with anything in comedy, but if you're going to get away with something "unsettling" or "offensive", it'll probably be within the context of comedy. And this goes beyond me quoting my favorite saucy stand-up comedian, it's been thousands and thousands of years of people deliberately offending for the sake of humor. You used to burn at the stake along with your writings, now you just get spam mail.

[Psyclone]

I don't think comedians get a pass, but I do think that context matters, and that being part of a joke is part of the context. The right joke, with the right set up/timing/delivery, with the right comedian, etc, etc, I think any topic can be funny.

I'm not Jewish so please don't take my word on this, but I was speaking to a Jewish friend and she mentioned Jew jokes in the context of improv comedy. (I think improv in particular is hard because if something offensive ends up being said, it's a faux pas to stop or derail the scene because of it.) She said that Jews love telling Jew jokes to each other, but that in addition to non-Jews telling Jew jokes, Jewish people telling Jew jokes to non-jews makes her uncomfortable. Obviously that's just her opinion and she doesn't speak for everyone, but she said that when Jewish people make those jokes to each other, there's a shared cultural understanding that isn't there when speaking to gentiles, and she worries that someone who knows very little about Jewish people could come out of those jokes thinking they're completely accurate to real life or apply to all Jewish people.

In this case, the context for her depends very strongly on in-group/out-group dynamics, and while she wouldn't necessarily be offended by someone telling a sort of borderline joke, there are situations and comedians who she feels more comfortable with them making those jokes.

(If anyone here is Jewish and wants to correct me on this or feels I'm out of line, please speak up and tell me. I don't want to speak for or over anyone.)

[Deedles]

I thought this was an interesting read, though it's half 5 in the morning so maybe not! Either way, posting it here for people to read at their leisure.

25 Comments You Might Not Realize Are Offensive