The voxlunch stream shelter thread

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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Elomin Sha » 12 Nov 2016, 12:22

No rules stating that a thread is exclusively one thing.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 12 Nov 2016, 14:21

Wraith wrote:Yes, but Fay, you don't need to be "impartial," you don't need to be anything. This just perfectly illustrates what I've been saying about people running from what bothers them. We dont need a forum mommy to protect us from adult conversation. We're adults.

I tried to get you to understand this point years ago: if you don't like what's being said in a discussion thread, instead of breaking down, or worse, locking down any conversation where people aren't espousing your own views...just don't open the thread. Ignore it. If you can't engage in adult conversation, if listening to ideas that contradict your own is a traumatic experience for you, then just bow out and let the rest of us talk.



We can handle your opinion, the thread being locked down is stating this isn't the thread, to be having this debate on. You want to get on discord, skype, google hangouts, and have this talk one on one. Lets go, I'm not afraid to be challenged. You're the one rampaging around going on and on about tough love, when we've demonstrated time and time again to have the resources to talk to you. You selectively quote points you want to target and ignored my explanation of what this was entirely. It's not that we can't take you on, it's that we don't feel it a valuable investment.

If however you wish to engage elsewhere in a voice chat and have this 'debate' if you can call it that I'm more then happy to. I'm Reila Oda everywhere. Please PM me. I'll happily even stream this discussion.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Elomin Sha » 12 Nov 2016, 16:44

ReilaOda wrote:
Elomin Sha wrote:It's also not my fault Oda decided chose to be petty and not address me by name with an accusation of being negative. Unnecessarily passive-aggressive showing a lack of character on their behalf (No attempt at saying my character is perfect). I responded fairly.


Correction. I didn't want to name call and point fingers. When I said bulldozer it's a term of endearment. It means you power through your poblems and don't let them get you down. That's a good thing. Your accusation of it being passive aggressive implies that I meant it harmfully. Showing a lack of character is again the wrong turn of phrase. It isn't your fault I chose to bristle at an accusation, as it isn't my fault that you chose to bristle at my comment. It's a misunderstanding.


Actually, if you 'bristled' as you said, it kind of is a fault on your behalf because you chose to. Letting emotion run unchecked is not productive. I didn't bristle because I did not react out angrily or defensively. As I said I was laughing as I wrote my final paragraph, but everythign else was emotionless and clean with wording. It is pretty much impossible for me to get angry. That why I wrote about nuiance.

It wasn't the bulldozer comment I said passive-aggressive to, it was that you referred to me not by name but as a negative person (it isn't hard to guess who you were refering to). Example of what I mean: Texting on Twitter* To the guy speaking too loudly in the queue behind me, shut up.
It showed that you did not want to respond directly to me, that's why I didn't take you seriously towards the end.

Anyway, welcome again.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 17:03

CamelKnackRambleHort wrote:You know, I used to think tough love and facing your problems head on was a good idea. I did that for the first 29 years or so of my life. It made me miserable. It caused me to obsess over my problems. It drove me to the edge of suicide. It did not make me stronger. It made me weaker.


How do you know? How do you know that if you had been coddled all your life, that when you faced whatever it was that nearly led you to suicide, that you wouln’t have just taken the plunge and done it? Have you ever stopped to consider that perhaps the reason that you drive to the edge of suicide, but did not actually jump, was because you dealt with enough shit before that you had grown strong enough to handle it?

Your problems made your life miserable. Shocking. That’s what problems do. And life is full of them. Always will be. You can cower and hide from reality, or you can man up and deal with it. You do the former, you’ll feel better while you’re walled away from the world, but all you’re doing is making yourself weaker and more fragile; and one day, you’re going to face a problem from whence there is no “safe space.” And when you do? Your inability to cope will be the end of you. There’s a reason people are offing themselves over Twitter drama.

CamelKnackRambleHort wrote:
Maybe your strategy worked for you Wraith. I am glad it did for you. It doesn't work for everybody. It didn't work for me. Is it really inconceivable that not everyone is like you in this particular way? I mean, is it not possible that different people have different needs?


Scientists estimate that human beings have been on earth for 200,000 years. We were hunted by animals who were higher on the foodchain. We face global pandemics. Natural disasters. Famine. War. Destruction and horrors unlike any of us will hopefully ever see.

We’re still here. And we got by without grown adults taking refuge in rooms setup for them hide from reality and get treated like children. 200,000 years. How many people do you think have come and gone since then? Trillions? Quadrillions? And yet all of a sudden, after 2,000 centuries of human evolution, suddenly we can’t deal with the world unless we can run away to little rooms with playdough and puppies?

Not buying it.

You think you need that stuff because you’ve been told you do. You don’t. You’re not made of glass. You are not a delicate snowflake. You will not melt away because someone with a differing opinion came to speak at your school, or some skeevy orange nightmare became president, or some mean old man said something harsh on your favorite forum. Depending on your beliefs, you’re either crafted by the flawless, error-proof hands of the all-mighty, or else you are literally comprised of star-matter come to earth; the pinnacle of thousands of years of evolutionary success. You do not need playdough and puppies to get by.

CamelKnackRambleHort wrote: You have said that the reason why people don't have coping mechanisms is that they have been too sheltered. How much is too much? And how do you know people who try to seek shelter here have been over sheltered? How do you know that any of us have?


Well, for starters, when people say things like
vorox4 wrote:the newly dubbed stream shelter would move to another stream, and another, and another, giving people a place where they can feel safe, appreciated, and covered in hugs.

Because their candidate didn’t win the presidential election, I find that a little disconcerting.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 17:04

Arclight_Dynamo wrote:"Tough love" nearly killed me. No joke.


Coddling people so they don’t know how to handle reality when it inevitably smacks them in the face has killed people. It does kill people. No joke.

Arclight_Dynamo wrote:"Tough love" is a terrible thing to inflict on someone who has depression and an anxiety disorder. "Tough love" nearly ruined - nearly ended - my life.


Yes, so I’m often told by people who seem to be doing fantastically well; as evidenced by the fact that they have to run away from reality and swear they have post-traumatic stress disorder because a mean man called them names on Twitter.

When I was 13, I went to a park, I tied a rope to the jungle-jim, tossed it over the swings, climbed to the top and looped it around my neck. I was ready to jump off. That’s what happens when doctors give you medication they haven’t perfected dosages for yet, and prescribe what they’d later tell me was “a daily over-dose.”

Ever hear about people saying their lives flashed before their eyes when they thought they’d die? Well, that happened to me every time I felt embarrassed or sad. On a daily basis. But here’s a fun twist: I only had flashbacks of the bad stuff. All the humiliation, all the pain, every bad word said to me, came rushing back in living color. Happened damn near every day. Continued until I was 16, moved to a new place, saw a new doctor that caught on to the problem. Now all I have to deal with is my body’s inability to process vitamin D properly, leading to a fairly severe case of seasonal effective disorder.

When I was 23, something very bad happened to me. Doesn’t really matter what it was, but I started thinking about just ending all of it. Just being done.

Know what stopped me this time? 23 years of hard-earned lessons. Every doubt I felt, every ounce of pain, every question in my mind, I’d heard it before. I’d been there. I’d dealt with it. And I realized, it had no power over me. I was dealing with some shit and it hurt and I hated it, and it felt like would never go away, but I knew it would. I knew I’d get past it. Because that’s what I’d done my whole life, and this was not going to be any different.

Arclight_Dynamo wrote:Not to mention most of the time I've run into "tough love," it's really just been an excuse to abuse and bully. An excuse to ignore pleas for help.

Fuck "tough love."


No, fuck your ridiculously flawed logic. If “most of the time you run into tough love it really just” anything, then you’re not actually talking about tough love. That’s like “fuck eating a healthy diet, most of the time I’ve run into healthy diets, they’re really just gimmicky fads fail I the end.” You’re bitching about one thing because of the effects of something else entirely.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 17:04

Arclight_Dynamo wrote: People here are saying "Here's this thing that makes my life easier. It allows me to have the mental resources to deal with life, in an 'adult way,' day in and day out. It improves my life."


Alcoholics and drug addicts say the exact same thing. Know why? Because they’ve developed a dependency on something, and they don’t know how to deal with life without it.

Arclight_Dynamo wrote:You're saying "I don't care if you say it helps you. You shouldn't rely on it. Even if it helps. Because I don't find it helpful and don't need it, I don't want you to find it helpful or need it. Do what I do and be like me, even if that doesn't work for you."

Surely you see how that's kind of shitty?


I would, if that was even remotely what I’m saying. I’m not saying “you shouldn’t rely on it even it helps.” I’m saying “it doesn’t help.” I’m saying “you’re treating your symptoms at the expense of not dealing with your actual problems.” I’m saying you’re accepting a short-term, band-aid fix for your problems that will ultimately make things worse for you and create further problems you will not be able to hide from.

Surely you see how that’s kind of shitty?
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 17:04

Jenelmo wrote:
Wraith wrote:I tried to get you to understand this point years ago: if you don't like what's being said in a discussion thread, instead of breaking down, or worse, locking down any conversation where people aren't espousing your own views...just don't open the thread


As I read the original post in this thread, this was not meant as a discussion thread, It was a thread to inform people of something that was happening and if you was interested you could join, kind of like the secret santa thread.


They’re all discussion threads. If the sole purpose of this thread is to announce the stream? Guess what? That’s accomplished I the first post. You’re free to read that and move on. What comes afterward? That’s discussion. And discussion only happens when multiple people participate. I’m not talking with myself here. If no one wanted to discuss anything? They could just stop discussing it. And if Fayili doesn’t want to read what’s in this thread? She doesn’t have to open it. Nobody does.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 17:05

ReilaOda wrote:We can handle your opinion,


Yes you can. That’s my point. You’re adults. You don’t need mommy covering your poor virgin ears. So why lock it?

ReilaOda wrote: the thread being locked down is stating this isn't the thread, to be having this debate on.


Then stop debating. Problem solved. If you don’t want to see what people are discussing, stop looking at it. If you don’t want to debate, stop debating. You have the power and the agency to control how you interact with this thread, if at all.

Use it.

ReilaOda wrote: You want to get on discord, skype, google hangouts, and have this talk one on one. Lets go, I'm not afraid to be challenged.


Oh FFS, this isn’t a second grade playground. I’m not here to “challenge you.” I came to share my thoughts on an issue. You know, once upon a time, adults had conversations about issues facing the world, and they didn’t need to agree with each other to have such conversations. But they were still just conversations. Not fights, not debates, no one is “challenging” you.

ReilaOda wrote: You're the one rampaging around going on and on about tough love, when we've demonstrated time and time again to have the resources to talk to you.


You think this is a rampage?

That’s cute.

Also, I should point out, Pixel started talking about “tough love.” Not me. I just said “don’t hide from your problems.” After school special cartoons used to say that.

ReilaOda wrote: You selectively quote points you want to target and ignored my explanation of what this was entirely. It's not that we can't take you on, it's that we don't feel it a valuable investment.


1. I’m not looking “to get taken on.” I’m looking to share what I’ve learned in life. Not everything is an attack on you.

2. Man, I came here 10 years ago, and you know what the most common complaint about my posting style was? “Why do you have to quote EVERYTHING we say? Your posts are so long, GOD!” Damned if I do, damned if I don’t. Simply put, I don’t disagree with everything you’ve said. Some of it I simply see no reason to respond to. To be perfectly honest, had your later explanations of what you’re presenting been your initial explanation, I probably wouldn’t be here. But your initial explanation, the one that brought me here? Was NOT “we’re putting up a virtual speakeasy. Come take your mind off the chaos. That’s reasonable. Your initial presentation was “come be safe and take shelter from the bad men outside who are threatening you. We’ll give you hugs and tell you you’re appreciated.”

3. If you don’t’ feel it’s a valuable investment? Then why are you still here? I’ll never understand why people do this. They make this big showing of telling me how not worth their time they are, and how I need to just stop arguing. Listen closely: if you think I’m not worth your precious time, or you don’t want to argue, then just stop talking to me. Don’t respond. Believe it or not, I’m not a troll. I’m not hear to haunt you. I have never followed someone from one thread to another, or gone on their social media pages to “challenge” them or demand they come back. I make a post in a thread. If no one says anything about it, that’s the end of it. If you engage and respond to me, I’m going to respond back. It takes two, man. You can TALK all you want me not being worth your time, but it rings pretty hollow when you continue to SPEND your time talking to me anyway.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 12 Nov 2016, 17:15

Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote:We can handle your opinion,


Yes you can. That’s my point. You’re adults. You don’t need mommy covering your poor virgin ears. So why lock it?

ReilaOda wrote: the thread being locked down is stating this isn't the thread, to be having this debate on.


Then stop debating. Problem solved. If you don’t want to see what people are discussing, stop looking at it. If you don’t want to debate, stop debating. You have the power and the agency to control how you interact with this thread, if at all.

Use it.

ReilaOda wrote: You want to get on discord, skype, google hangouts, and have this talk one on one. Lets go, I'm not afraid to be challenged.


Oh FFS, this isn’t a second grade playground. I’m not here to “challenge you.” I came to share my thoughts on an issue. You know, once upon a time, adults had conversations about issues facing the world, and they didn’t need to agree with each other to have such conversations. But they were still just conversations. Not fights, not debates, no one is “challenging” you.

ReilaOda wrote: You're the one rampaging around going on and on about tough love, when we've demonstrated time and time again to have the resources to talk to you.


You think this is a rampage?

That’s cute.

Also, I should point out, Pixel started talking about “tough love.” Not me. I just said “don’t hide from your problems.” After school special cartoons used to say that.

ReilaOda wrote: You selectively quote points you want to target and ignored my explanation of what this was entirely. It's not that we can't take you on, it's that we don't feel it a valuable investment.


1. I’m not looking “to get taken on.” I’m looking to share what I’ve learned in life. Not everything is an attack on you.

2. Man, I came here 10 years ago, and you know what the most common complaint about my posting style was? “Why do you have to quote EVERYTHING we say? Your posts are so long, GOD!” Damned if I do, damned if I don’t. Simply put, I don’t disagree with everything you’ve said. Some of it I simply see no reason to respond to. To be perfectly honest, had your later explanations of what you’re presenting been your initial explanation, I probably wouldn’t be here. But your initial explanation, the one that brought me here? Was NOT “we’re putting up a virtual speakeasy. Come take your mind off the chaos. That’s reasonable. Your initial presentation was “come be safe and take shelter from the bad men outside who are threatening you. We’ll give you hugs and tell you you’re appreciated.”

3. If you don’t’ feel it’s a valuable investment? Then why are you still here? I’ll never understand why people do this. They make this big showing of telling me how not worth their time they are, and how I need to just stop arguing. Listen closely: if you think I’m not worth your precious time, or you don’t want to argue, then just stop talking to me. Don’t respond. Believe it or not, I’m not a troll. I’m not hear to haunt you. I have never followed someone from one thread to another, or gone on their social media pages to “challenge” them or demand they come back. I make a post in a thread. If no one says anything about it, that’s the end of it. If you engage and respond to me, I’m going to respond back. It takes two, man. You can TALK all you want me not being worth your time, but it rings pretty hollow when you continue to SPEND your time talking to me anyway.




I'm no longer spending time on your shenanigans, is what I'm saying. This post on, you aren't worth the time and energy spent arguing with someone convinced that he's right when he's misinterpreting what's happening and has been told a number of times what it's purpose is.

One last time for the people in the back. It's just a chill place for people to unwind. IDGAF why.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 12 Nov 2016, 17:16

Elomin Sha wrote:
ReilaOda wrote:
Elomin Sha wrote:It's also not my fault Oda decided chose to be petty and not address me by name with an accusation of being negative. Unnecessarily passive-aggressive showing a lack of character on their behalf (No attempt at saying my character is perfect). I responded fairly.


Correction. I didn't want to name call and point fingers. When I said bulldozer it's a term of endearment. It means you power through your poblems and don't let them get you down. That's a good thing. Your accusation of it being passive aggressive implies that I meant it harmfully. Showing a lack of character is again the wrong turn of phrase. It isn't your fault I chose to bristle at an accusation, as it isn't my fault that you chose to bristle at my comment. It's a misunderstanding.


Actually, if you 'bristled' as you said, it kind of is a fault on your behalf because you chose to. Letting emotion run unchecked is not productive. I didn't bristle because I did not react out angrily or defensively. As I said I was laughing as I wrote my final paragraph, but everythign else was emotionless and clean with wording. It is pretty much impossible for me to get angry. That why I wrote about nuiance.

It wasn't the bulldozer comment I said passive-aggressive to, it was that you referred to me not by name but as a negative person (it isn't hard to guess who you were refering to). Example of what I mean: Texting on Twitter* To the guy speaking too loudly in the queue behind me, shut up.
It showed that you did not want to respond directly to me, that's why I didn't take you seriously towards the end.

Anyway, welcome again.



I chose not to quote you because I didn't want to directly point fingers, but that's cool if you felt it that way. I also am lazy, so it's a combination of both. Lazyness and 'eh better to not point fingers'. *shrug* You do you man.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 17:29

ReilaOda wrote:
Wraith wrote:If you don’t’ feel it’s a valuable investment? Then why are you still here? I’ll never understand why people do this. They make this big showing of telling me how not worth their time they are, and how I need to just stop arguing. Listen closely: if you think I’m not worth your precious time, or you don’t want to argue, then just stop talking to me. Don’t respond. Believe it or not, I’m not a troll. I’m not hear to haunt you. I have never followed someone from one thread to another, or gone on their social media pages to “challenge” them or demand they come back. I make a post in a thread. If no one says anything about it, that’s the end of it. If you engage and respond to me, I’m going to respond back. It takes two, man. You can TALK all you want me not being worth your time, but it rings pretty hollow when you continue to SPEND your time talking to me anyway.


I'm no longer spending time on your shenanigans, is what I'm saying.


Yea…that’s what you’re saying.

That’s what you’re still saying.

And in doing so, you’ve illustrated my point, beautifully. You said I wasn’t worth your time in your last comment. And I responded by saying “ok, cool, I’m not WORTH your time so stop SPENDING your time on responding to me.”

And yet, here you are. Spending even MORE of your time to just to make ABSOLUTELY SURE that I know just HOW very unworthy of your time I am.

Action speaks louder than words, bro.

ReilaOda wrote: This is the last reply you're getting from me, as I said, in what I thought was a clear exit. You aren't, worth, my time.


Yea, see, it WOULD have been a clear exit.

But then you came back.

The whole “be the bigger man and make a grand exist speech about how I’m below you and you’re taking the high road and leaving” thing?

It only works once, and then only if you actually leave. The moment you come back?

Total waste of breath.

ReilaOda wrote: This is the last you're getting from me. Go ahead, try and goad. It wont work.


Oh, FFS, you don’t listen well, do you? I’m gonna just copy and paste what I said last time.

Wraith wrote:I’m not looking “to get taken on.” I’m looking to share what I’ve learned in life. Not everything is an attack on you.


Wraith wrote:Oh FFS, this isn’t a second grade playground. I’m not here to “challenge you.” I came to share my thoughts on an issue. You know, once upon a time, adults had conversations about issues facing the world, and they didn’t need to agree with each other to havesuch conversations. But they were still just conversations. Not fights, not debates, no one is “challenging” you.


Wraith wrote:stop debating. Problem solved. If you don’t want to see what people are discussing, stop looking at it. If you don’t want to debate, stop debating. You have the power and the agency to control how you interact with this thread, if at all.

Use it.


What part of this says to you that I have any interest in “goading you?” I’m just a windmill, Mr. Quixote. Put the lance away.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 12 Nov 2016, 17:35

This was motivated by the trump election and legitimate fear. People got scared and they banded together. This is now a chill place to go, hangout, and be safe from the world for a little while. It's not a hiding place, it's a recharge point. I can't tell you how infuriating it is that this isn't directly stated. Thus I feel it's best we make a new post more correctly explaining it's purpose to people so we don't get the responses like were leveled by Wraith, and Elomin Sha. Based in truth, that we must power through life to some extent. Instead lets make it more clear what's going on. I'm sick and tired of having to quote discuss what should be a simple idea, about people doing a good thing, not some huge moral dilemma. You can spin it however you want. Yet here we are discussing the merits of a safe place for people to crash..

When people do this all the time, it's called a home, or your family, or whatever else you take solace in. It's a hug filled warm inviting place where you can join up and hang out without fear of ridicule regardless of who you are. As I stated before this is not your traditional safe space, this is a REAL safe place. A true shelter from the storm, be ye pro trump, or anti trump. we've had supporters of both jump in and say 'hey this is really cool thank you guys'.

If that is something you take issue with, I have no reason to engage you, because as far as I'm concerned it's pointless drivel. Yes I mean that. The fact of the matter is we don't freak out when someone has a storm basement, why the heck is a virtual one any different? "Because it's not really a threat and it's just people" of course it isn't a threat. Is it likely anyone will be hurt? No. Is it proper for people to use time and wind down so they can approach life with a more reasoned point of view? Yes. Then why the flying heck is this a problem.

This service, a wind down place, for people that are scared, for WHATEVER REASON, is what we're doing. If you have a problem with us giving you a safe place to go crash and unwind. I presume you have an issue with churches doing that, shelters, and any other service. IT's the same thing. An un-judging group of people who are going to show that we love you. If you got a problem with that, then dueces, I got no time for you.

That's what's happening here, and I full intend to make that PAINFULLY clear. All of this discussion is making anyone who is new to the channel viewing this probably quite intimidated, which is the opposite of what we want. Sure they can 'power through' like 'adults' but the fact of the matter is we should avoid causing un-necessary damage. So lets all get a clear picture of what's happening.

We made a shelter, for people that were scared. That's it. It's a warm place to be regardless of your views. You come in, calm down, feel better, and continue to handle the world. That's it.Yet here we are arguing over a misrepresentation simply through passion and fear. Lets bear in mind the OP spoke while afraid himself

As a trans woman I'm still nervous, and not because of the presidency, but what that fringe of people that already hated me might do. That fear is very real and has been long before this election. Telling afraid people, to calm down, and not be afraid is one of the most insidious things I've heard in casual conversation.

All this place is, is as Wraith Wisely suggested, a speakeasy. A place to crash , be loved, get some hugs. So you can recharge.

I recognize I'm being combative because I'm frustrated. This should've been easy so I got into the whole protector mode. So if everyone is OK with this can we please move on?
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 12 Nov 2016, 17:36

Wraith wrote:
What part of this says to you that I have any interest in “goading you?” I’m just a windmill, Mr. Quixote. Put the lance away.


Alright I'm being overly combative out of frustration and sleep deprivation, read my explanation below and lets move the hell on.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 12 Nov 2016, 17:36

I agree with much of what you're saying, Wraith, but... man... you're abrasive, and that's not going to win your point over.
Graham wrote:The point is: Nyeh nyeh nyeh. I'm an old man.
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James: Who cares about that question? That's a good answer.

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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Deedles » 12 Nov 2016, 17:42

Seriously, Wraith? For someone who claims to be an adult you're acting kind of childish. Chill out. If you don't think the Voxlunch Stream Shelter is a good idea then you don't have to take part, but it legitimately helps other people. Not everyone works the same way that you do, just face that fact and move on.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 18:04

ReilaOda wrote:If that is something you take issue with, I have no reason to engage you, because as far as I'm concerned it's pointless drivel. Yes I mean that. The fact of the matter is we don't freak out when someone has a storm basement, why the heck is a virtual one any different? "Because it's not really a threat and it's just people" of course it isn't a threat. Is it likely anyone will be hurt? No. Is it proper for people to use time and wind down so they can approach life with a more reasoned point of view? Yes. Then why the flying heck is this a problem.


O_o Why did you use the storm basement analogy, and then explain why the storm basement analogy isn’t a very good analogy?

ReilaOda wrote:Telling afraid people, to calm down, and not be afraid is one of the most insidious things I've heard in casual conversation.


…seriously? That’s “insidious?” Telling people not to be afraid? So what do you do in your little shelter? Tell them “oh hell yea, you should be terrified?”

Unless you’ve fetishized your victim complex, that’s not going to make anyone feel better.

Deedles wrote:Seriously, Wraith? For someone who claims to be an adult you're acting kind of childish. Chill out. If you don't think the Voxlunch Stream Shelter is a good idea then you don't have to take part, but it legitimately helps other people. Not everyone works the same way that you do, just face that fact and move on.


Oh Deedles. Have you forgotten who I am? What I’m like when I’m mad? I am entirely “chilled out” right now. You people keep saying “not everyone works the same way that I do.” Have you considered taking that advice to heart? That not everyone works the same way that you do? That maybe sometimes a cup of black coffee and some cold water splashed on the face is more in order than a nap and some herbal tea?
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 12 Nov 2016, 18:10

Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote:If that is something you take issue with, I have no reason to engage you, because as far as I'm concerned it's pointless drivel. Yes I mean that. The fact of the matter is we don't freak out when someone has a storm basement, why the heck is a virtual one any different? "Because it's not really a threat and it's just people" of course it isn't a threat. Is it likely anyone will be hurt? No. Is it proper for people to use time and wind down so they can approach life with a more reasoned point of view? Yes. Then why the flying heck is this a problem.


O_o Why did you use the storm basement analogy, and then explain why the storm basement analogy isn’t a very good analogy?

ReilaOda wrote:Telling afraid people, to calm down, and not be afraid is one of the most insidious things I've heard in casual conversation.


…seriously? That’s “insidious?” Telling people not to be afraid? So what do you do in your little shelter? Tell them “oh hell yea, you should be terrified?”

Unless you’ve fetishized your victim complex, that’s not going to make anyone feel better.

Deedles wrote:Seriously, Wraith? For someone who claims to be an adult you're acting kind of childish. Chill out. If you don't think the Voxlunch Stream Shelter is a good idea then you don't have to take part, but it legitimately helps other people. Not everyone works the same way that you do, just face that fact and move on.


Oh Deedles. Have you forgotten who I am? What I’m like when I’m mad? I am entirely “chilled out” right now. You people keep saying “not everyone works the same way that I do.” Have you considered taking that advice to heart? That not everyone works the same way that you do? That maybe sometimes a cup of black coffee and some cold water splashed on the face is more in order than a nap and some herbal tea?




No, we tell them it will be OK and we will move on. We got this. You keep equating us to a 'victim complex' that isn't the point. The point is to give people a rallying point so they can dool cool shit IN THE WORLD AND NOT FEEL LIKE VICTIMS. For FUCK SAKE man.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 18:21

ReilaOda wrote:No, we tell them it will be OK and we will move on. We got this.


So “It will be OK” is supportive, but “don’t be afraid” is “insidious?” Dafuq? WTF is the difference? What,

“it’s going to be OK, but you should still TOTALLY be afraid?”

“We got this, but rest assured, you’re totally correct in thinking that you can’t handle it?”

You’re kind of all over the place right now.

ReilaOda wrote: You keep equating us to a 'victim complex' that isn't the point.


I said “victim complex” a total of ONCE, and that was when you said that “telling people not to be afraid was the most insidious thing you’d ever heard in casual conversation.”

The point was the only way it’s “insidious” to tell people NOT to be afraid is if they PREFER to be afraid. Which is behavior symptomatic of…say it with me now…someone with a victim complex.

ReilaOda wrote: The point is to give people a rallying point so they can dool cool shit IN THE WORLD AND NOT FEEL LIKE VICTIMS. For FUCK SAKE man.


And you’re going to accomplish that by telling them that by telling them that they’re incapable of handling what’s going on outside, and that they should totally be afraid (because it would be "insidious" not to)?

Because that sounds an AWFUL lot like casting someone as a victim to me.

But what do I know? I'm just quoting something that you CLEARLY never actually said, because "I'm not worthy of your time, and your done with my shenanigans and will not be goaded into returning."
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Deedles » 12 Nov 2016, 18:24

Wraith wrote:
Deedles wrote:Seriously, Wraith? For someone who claims to be an adult you're acting kind of childish. Chill out. If you don't think the Voxlunch Stream Shelter is a good idea then you don't have to take part, but it legitimately helps other people. Not everyone works the same way that you do, just face that fact and move on.


Oh Deedles. Have you forgotten who I am? What I’m like when I’m mad? I am entirely “chilled out” right now. You people keep saying “not everyone works the same way that I do.” Have you considered taking that advice to heart? That not everyone works the same way that you do? That maybe sometimes a cup of black coffee and some cold water splashed on the face is more in order than a nap and some herbal tea?


Yeah, I remember, Wraith. Whether you're angry or not, you're being rather forceful, and you're not really listening to what people are trying to tell you. That said, you are right in your point that it doesn't have to be purely one or the other. As someone who struggles with depression and social anxiety I sometimes take refuge from the world to reload, and sometimes I'll barrel through whatever problems I have. It depends on the day, on the issue at hand, among other things.

That's what the Voxlunch Stream Shelter is for. It's for the days where barreling through isn't an option. It's there for the people who might feel lonely and scared and just need some good company for a while. It's there for anyone who needs it for any reason as long as it isn't detrimental to those around them.

Tough love can be helpful, but it isn't always the answer. No two people work the exact same way because no two minds are exactly the same.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 18:29

Deedles wrote:Yeah, I remember, Wraith. Whether you're angry or not, you're being rather forceful, and you're not really listening to what people are trying to tell you.


Nonsense. I’m not agreeing with what people are telling me. That doesn’t mean I’m not listening. There’s a reason I quote and respond. I read every word that’s written, I consider every point that’s made -every single one of them- and once it’s been pondered, I respond.

Or did you think I predicted every single word you would say and just copy and pasted my answers?
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 12 Nov 2016, 18:37

Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote:No, we tell them it will be OK and we will move on. We got this.


So “It will be OK” is supportive, but “don’t be afraid” is “insidious?” Dafuq? WTF is the difference? What,

“it’s going to be OK, but you should still TOTALLY be afraid?”

“We got this, but rest assured, you’re totally correct in thinking that you can’t handle it?”

You’re kind of all over the place right now.

ReilaOda wrote: You keep equating us to a 'victim complex' that isn't the point.


I said “victim complex” a total of ONCE, and that was when you said that “telling people not to be afraid was the most insidious thing you’d ever heard in casual conversation.”

The point was the only way it’s “insidious” to tell people NOT to be afraid is if they PREFER to be afraid. Which is behavior symptomatic of…say it with me now…someone with a victim complex.

ReilaOda wrote: The point is to give people a rallying point so they can dool cool shit IN THE WORLD AND NOT FEEL LIKE VICTIMS. For FUCK SAKE man.


And you’re going to accomplish that by telling them that by telling them that they’re incapable of handling what’s going on outside, and that they should totally be afraid (because it would be "insidious" not to)?

Because that sounds an AWFUL lot like casting someone as a victim to me.

But what do I know? I'm just quoting something that you CLEARLY never actually said, because "I'm not worthy of your time, and your done with my shenanigans and will not be goaded into returning."


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You keep putting words in my mouth, OK no more Miss Nice Rei Rei, time to tear your argument apart word by word. You finally have mama dragons attention. Revel in it. Lets start with your first assumption.
------------------------------------------

So “It will be OK” is supportive, but “don’t be afraid” is “insidious?” Dafuq? WTF is the difference? What,

“it’s going to be OK, but you should still TOTALLY be afraid?”

“We got this, but rest assured, you’re totally correct in thinking that you can’t handle it?”

You’re kind of all over the place right now.
--------------------------------------------
. You made four distinct critical mistakes here, lets go over them shall we?

Yes, going "Oh don't be scared you're over reacting" is insidious, it's belittling if done incorrectly and your forceful tone comes across patronizing and hostile. So yes. I stand by that. A gentle "you'll be alright, the outside world will sort itself out. Lets go help it along." IS far more supportive for some people.

Number 2
---------------------------------------------------------------------

"It's going to be OK." End that sentence there, Fear is in of itself subjective. I would say the fear is legitimate but that doesn't mean it is to everyone. Thus we say "It'll be OK" or the like.
---------------------------------------------

"And you're going to acomplish that by-"

_------------------------
This sentence is faulty in two ways, firstly we never tell them they can't handle it, they probably can. We're just a support strut. Second they're within their right as humans to be afraid, we never said they SHOULD we just said it was a legit fear that we understood.

Four. Shall I keep going?
-----------------------------
"But what do I know? I'm just quoting something that you CLEARLY never actually said, because "I'm not worthy of your time, and your done with my shenanigans and will not be goaded into returning."
-----------------------------
Two mistakes here, firstly I addressed this and admitted I was acting irrationally. Second You managed to piss me off so you continued to get my attention.


So now that I've debunked your main arrows, lets be frank here. You and I are both anti safe space. We both despise victim culture. So why the hell would I Stand for this space? Because it isn't a victim safe space, it's a support network. We show compassion, motivate people, and tell them "hey we'll get there". We don't belittle them for needing the space or tell them to not be afraid. We tell them they aren't alone. The feeling of having people at your back is a great one for some people.


PS: A small edit here. You're right, people do need to learn to handle themselves, so lets help them grow with a place that supports them.

That's our goal.

Love:
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Deedles » 12 Nov 2016, 18:41

Wraith wrote:
Deedles wrote:Yeah, I remember, Wraith. Whether you're angry or not, you're being rather forceful, and you're not really listening to what people are trying to tell you.


Nonsense. I’m not agreeing with what people are telling me. That doesn’t mean I’m not listening. There’s a reason I quote and respond. I read every word that’s written, I consider every point that’s made -every single one of them- and once it’s been pondered, I respond.

Or did you think I predicted every single word you would say and just copy and pasted my answers?


No, I did not, but there is a difference between hearing and listening, and to me you seem to of been doing the former. While some point, due to their personal experiences, have expressed negative opinions towards tough love, the general consensus seems to be that tough love can be good, but it can also be really bad. It depends on the person, and what situation they're in.

Now... I'm gonna go bury my face in my uni coursework. Have fun. :)
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 19:40

Oh for the love of melo drama…
ReilaOda wrote:You keep putting words in my mouth, OK no more Miss Nice Rei Rei, time to tear your argument apart word by word. You finally have mama dragons attention. Revel in it. Lets start with your first assumption.


Oh goody. Just imagine my excitement. I “have mama dragons attention.”

Did…did that sound scarier in your head than it did when you typed it? FFS, even if I had wanted your attention, - and I didn’t- even you hadn’t just proved my point about the absurdity of people’s “you’re not worth my time” posts

Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote: the thread being locked down is stating this isn't the thread, to be having this debate on.


Then stop debating. Problem solved. If you don’t want to see what people are discussing, stop looking at it. If you don’t want to debate, stop debating. You have the power and the agency to control how you interact with this thread, if at all.

Use it.


Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote: You want to get on discord, skype, google hangouts, and have this talk one on one. Lets go, I'm not afraid to be challenged.


Oh FFS, this isn’t a second grade playground. I’m not here to “challenge you.” I came to share my thoughts on an issue. You know, once upon a time, adults had conversations about issues facing the world, and they didn’t need to agree with each other to have such conversations. But they were still just conversations. Not fights, not debates, no one is “challenging” you.


Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote: It's not that we can't take you on, it's that we don't feel it a valuable investment.


...If you don’t’ feel it’s a valuable investment? Then why are you still here? I’ll never understand why people do this. They make this big showing of telling me how not worth their time they are, and how I need to just stop arguing. Listen closely: if you think I’m not worth your precious time, or you don’t want to argue, then just stop talking to me. Don’t respond. Believe it or not, I’m not a troll. I’m not hear to haunt you. I have never followed someone from one thread to another, or gone on their social media pages to “challenge” them or demand they come back. I make a post in a thread. If no one says anything about it, that’s the end of it. If you engage and respond to me, I’m going to respond back. It takes two, man. You can TALK all you want me not being worth your time, but it rings pretty hollow when you continue to SPEND your time talking to me anyway.

ReilaOda wrote:I'm no longer spending time on your shenanigans, is what I'm saying. This post on, you aren't worth the time and energy spent arguing with someone convinced that he's right when he's misinterpreting what's happening and has been told a number of times what it's purpose is.

This is the last you're getting from me. Go ahead, try and goad. It wont work.

Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote:
I'm no longer spending time on your shenanigans, is what I'm saying.


Yea…that’s what you’re saying.

That’s what you’re still saying.

And in doing so, you’ve illustrated my point, beautifully. You said I wasn’t worth your time in your last comment. And I responded by saying “ok, cool, I’m not WORTH your time so stop SPENDING your time on responding to me.”

And yet, here you are. Spending even MORE of your time to just to make ABSOLUTELY SURE that I know just HOW very unworthy of your time I am.

Action speaks louder than words, bro.


Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote: This is the last reply you're getting from me, as I said, in what I thought was a clear exit. You aren't, worth, my time.


Yea, see, it WOULD have been a clear exit.

But then you came back.

The whole “be the bigger man and make a grand exist speech about how I’m below you and you’re taking the high road and leaving” thing?

It only works once, and then only if you actually leave. The moment you come back?

Total waste of breath.

Seriously, like 20 minutes that lasted. Way to “take the high road with your valuable time, mama dragon.”

Even ignoring all that, at this point, you’re going to tear my argument apart word by word? That’s cute, mama d. Bring it on.
ReilaOda wrote:
Wraith wrote:So “It will be OK” is supportive, but “don’t be afraid” is “insidious?” Dafuq? WTF is the difference? What,

“it’s going to be OK, but you should still TOTALLY be afraid?”

“We got this, but rest assured, you’re totally correct in thinking that you can’t handle it?”

You’re kind of all over the place right now.

. You made four distinct critical mistakes here, lets go over them shall we?


Oh, let’s.

ReilaOda wrote:Yes, going "Oh don't be scared you're over reacting" is insidious, it's belittling if done incorrectly and your forceful tone comes across patronizing and hostile. So yes. I stand by that. A gentle "you'll be alright, the outside world will sort itself out. Lets go help it along." IS far more supportive for some people.


1. What you actually said was not “saying ‘Oh don't be scared you're over reacting’ is insidious.” What you said was “Telling afraid people, to calm down” is insidious. And not that this sounds all THAT much better, but THAT sounded incredibly stupid.
2. Now you are putting words in my mouth. You realize there’s a difference between calling someone a pussy for being worried, and telling them “I get that you’re scared, but trust me, you’re tougher than you think. You can handle this,” right? Because that is what I’m saying.

ReilaOda wrote:"It's going to be OK." End that sentence there, Fear is in of itself subjective. I would say the fear is legitimate but that doesn't mean it is to everyone. Thus we say "It'll be OK" or the like.


If it’s going to be OK, then there’s no reason to be afraid, is there? Seriously, “don’t be afraid” is like “calm someone who’s freaking out down 101.”

ReilaOda wrote:
Wraith wrote:"And you're going to acomplish that by-"

This sentence is faulty in two ways, firstly we never tell them they can't handle it, they probably can. We're just a support strut. Second they're within their right as humans to be afraid, we never said they SHOULD we just said it was a legit fear that we understood.


So they probably CAN handle it; but it’s the worst thing in the world to tell them so? To let them know just how strong they truly are?

Image

ReilaOda wrote:Four. Shall I keep going?


Well, you’ve done a pretty crappy job so far, “mama dragon” but why not?

ReilaOda wrote:
So now that I've debunked your main arrows,


Oh good lord, that’s what passes for debunking where you’re from? All you did was make yourself look more ridiculous!

ReilaOda wrote:
lets be frank here.


As opposed to how incredibly subtle I was before?

Also, what the hell kind of name is Frank for a dragon mother?

Honestly…
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 12 Nov 2016, 19:42

Wraith wrote:Oh for the love of melo drama…
ReilaOda wrote:You keep putting words in my mouth, OK no more Miss Nice Rei Rei, time to tear your argument apart word by word. You finally have mama dragons attention. Revel in it. Lets start with your first assumption.


Oh goody. Just imagine my excitement. I “have mama dragons attention.”

Did…did that sound scarier in your head than it did when you typed it? FFS, even if I had wanted your attention, - and I didn’t- even you hadn’t just proved my point about the absurdity of people’s “you’re not worth my time” posts

Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote: the thread being locked down is stating this isn't the thread, to be having this debate on.


Then stop debating. Problem solved. If you don’t want to see what people are discussing, stop looking at it. If you don’t want to debate, stop debating. You have the power and the agency to control how you interact with this thread, if at all.

Use it.


Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote: You want to get on discord, skype, google hangouts, and have this talk one on one. Lets go, I'm not afraid to be challenged.


Oh FFS, this isn’t a second grade playground. I’m not here to “challenge you.” I came to share my thoughts on an issue. You know, once upon a time, adults had conversations about issues facing the world, and they didn’t need to agree with each other to have such conversations. But they were still just conversations. Not fights, not debates, no one is “challenging” you.


Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote: It's not that we can't take you on, it's that we don't feel it a valuable investment.


...If you don’t’ feel it’s a valuable investment? Then why are you still here? I’ll never understand why people do this. They make this big showing of telling me how not worth their time they are, and how I need to just stop arguing. Listen closely: if you think I’m not worth your precious time, or you don’t want to argue, then just stop talking to me. Don’t respond. Believe it or not, I’m not a troll. I’m not hear to haunt you. I have never followed someone from one thread to another, or gone on their social media pages to “challenge” them or demand they come back. I make a post in a thread. If no one says anything about it, that’s the end of it. If you engage and respond to me, I’m going to respond back. It takes two, man. You can TALK all you want me not being worth your time, but it rings pretty hollow when you continue to SPEND your time talking to me anyway.

ReilaOda wrote:I'm no longer spending time on your shenanigans, is what I'm saying. This post on, you aren't worth the time and energy spent arguing with someone convinced that he's right when he's misinterpreting what's happening and has been told a number of times what it's purpose is.

This is the last you're getting from me. Go ahead, try and goad. It wont work.

Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote:
I'm no longer spending time on your shenanigans, is what I'm saying.


Yea…that’s what you’re saying.

That’s what you’re still saying.

And in doing so, you’ve illustrated my point, beautifully. You said I wasn’t worth your time in your last comment. And I responded by saying “ok, cool, I’m not WORTH your time so stop SPENDING your time on responding to me.”

And yet, here you are. Spending even MORE of your time to just to make ABSOLUTELY SURE that I know just HOW very unworthy of your time I am.

Action speaks louder than words, bro.


Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote: This is the last reply you're getting from me, as I said, in what I thought was a clear exit. You aren't, worth, my time.


Yea, see, it WOULD have been a clear exit.

But then you came back.

The whole “be the bigger man and make a grand exist speech about how I’m below you and you’re taking the high road and leaving” thing?

It only works once, and then only if you actually leave. The moment you come back?

Total waste of breath.

Seriously, like 20 minutes that lasted. Way to “take the high road with your valuable time, mama dragon.”

Even ignoring all that, at this point, you’re going to tear my argument apart word by word? That’s cute, mama d. Bring it on.
ReilaOda wrote:
Wraith wrote:So “It will be OK” is supportive, but “don’t be afraid” is “insidious?” Dafuq? WTF is the difference? What,

“it’s going to be OK, but you should still TOTALLY be afraid?”

“We got this, but rest assured, you’re totally correct in thinking that you can’t handle it?”

You’re kind of all over the place right now.

. You made four distinct critical mistakes here, lets go over them shall we?


Oh, let’s.

ReilaOda wrote:Yes, going "Oh don't be scared you're over reacting" is insidious, it's belittling if done incorrectly and your forceful tone comes across patronizing and hostile. So yes. I stand by that. A gentle "you'll be alright, the outside world will sort itself out. Lets go help it along." IS far more supportive for some people.


1. What you actually said was not “saying ‘Oh don't be scared you're over reacting’ is insidious.” What you said was “Telling afraid people, to calm down” is insidious. And not that this sounds all THAT much better, but THAT sounded incredibly stupid.
2. Now you are putting words in my mouth. You realize there’s a difference between calling someone a pussy for being worried, and telling them “I get that you’re scared, but trust me, you’re tougher than you think. You can handle this,” right? Because that is what I’m saying.

ReilaOda wrote:"It's going to be OK." End that sentence there, Fear is in of itself subjective. I would say the fear is legitimate but that doesn't mean it is to everyone. Thus we say "It'll be OK" or the like.


If it’s going to be OK, then there’s no reason to be afraid, is there? Seriously, “don’t be afraid” is like “calm someone who’s freaking out down 101.”

ReilaOda wrote:
Wraith wrote:"And you're going to acomplish that by-"

This sentence is faulty in two ways, firstly we never tell them they can't handle it, they probably can. We're just a support strut. Second they're within their right as humans to be afraid, we never said they SHOULD we just said it was a legit fear that we understood.


So they probably CAN handle it; but it’s the worst thing in the world to tell them so? To let them know just how strong they truly are?

Image

ReilaOda wrote:Four. Shall I keep going?


Well, you’ve done a pretty crappy job so far, “mama dragon” but why not?

ReilaOda wrote:
So now that I've debunked your main arrows,


Oh good lord, that’s what passes for debunking where you’re from? All you did was make yourself look more ridiculous!

ReilaOda wrote:
lets be frank here.


As opposed to how incredibly subtle I was before?

Also, what the hell kind of name is Frank for a dragon mother?

Honestly…


I'm now convinced you're a troll, thanks for taking the bait.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 19:46

Deedles wrote:No, I did not, but there is a difference between hearing and listening, and to me you seem to of been doing the former.


I take the time to ponder and compose a response to every point someone makes, but I’m not listening…what…because I don’t see things your way? Because you’re just so clearly right, that anyone who doesn’t see things your was isn’t listening?

Nice.
-Wraith

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