The voxlunch stream shelter thread

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Mister Blue Sky
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Mister Blue Sky » 12 Nov 2016, 19:47

I'm not going to say any more than this, I'm a quiet person by nature. Due to people being so.. aggressive with me when I was young, no friends, etc. Not the point. Also, didn't read the whole thing, I'm kind of dylexic, I skim things, it's a problem, don't worry about it, but apologies if I'm missing things.

Firstly, this thing that's going on, neither side is going to win. It benefits no one, no one is going to change their minds, especially not certain people that appear to be in this thread. They want you to keep arguing with them, don't let them have that win. Changing your mind is something you arrive at by yourself 99.999% of the time and not because someone argued their point at you. At least, in my experience. This is why whenever I realize I'm in an argument, I quite often just abandon it immediately, as it's a waste of my time.

Secondly...

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You don't have to agree, condone, endorse, support, comment, you don't have to ANYTHING what we're doing. Let people enjoy things. There are a TON of things I don't agree with, but you know what I don't do? I don't tell people I don't agree with those things, I don't say, "hey... HEY stop doing things that help you because I don't like 'em.. or they wouldn't have helped me" Because.. what do I care what other people are doing? In the broad strokes, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, go for it, whatever makes you happy.

You can't apply your experiences to others and have it work the exact same for them as it does for you. Human beings don't work that way. I'm probably messed up for life because people thought they could do that exact thing to me, so it irks me. Regardless, this post, is a monologue, I'm not responding to anything. Just gonna leave it here, and go back to doing what I can to help myself and others. You're free to join. You're free to not. You're free to "argue" with this, but I won't indulge you, I said what I needed to and I'm out.
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King Kool
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby King Kool » 12 Nov 2016, 19:51

Some things never change.

What's happening, Wraith?

Guys, Desert Bus is going on RIGHT. NOW.

How do you have time to get into arguments?

http://www.desertbus.org
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Wraith
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 19:52

ReilaOda wrote:I'm now convinced you're a troll, thanks for taking the bait.


Seriously? You make one of the most overtly aggressive opening I've ever seen on this forum, you get up in my face, make up a big ol chest-puffy nickname for yourself, and then tell me you're going to "tear my argument apart word by word..."

But I'm a troll. Why? Because you puffed out your chest and tried to be a big woman and fell on your ass?

Sweety, your failure doesn't make me a troll. You want to talk, we'll talk. But don't get up in my face and then whine when I don't back down. You put yourself in that position.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 19:54

What's up Kool? Still rocking the Burgandy! :-D
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Psyclone » 12 Nov 2016, 19:57

Wraith, I have a sincere question for you and I honestly don't mean it as an attack; I'm genuinely curious. You've always been combative, but you you used to be a pretty big forum presence and you were active in a lot of threads. These days, I only ever see you here starting or prolonging arguments. Do you come here solely to get into fights (or "ideological debates" or whatever you want to call them) with people?
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ReilaOda
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 12 Nov 2016, 20:01

King Kool wrote:Some things never change.

What's happening, Wraith?

Guys, Desert Bus is going on RIGHT. NOW.

How do you have time to get into arguments?

http://www.desertbus.org


I can watch DB and defend something I believe in. *shrug* It isn't worth the time and energy though. W're just not going to see eye to eye, and not through a lack of effort. Time to move on.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby King Kool » 12 Nov 2016, 20:03

Wraith wrote:What's up Kool? Still rocking the Burgandy! :-D


Yeahhh, I really haven't changed it in a while. I've gotten lazy.

Hope everything's great with y'all and yours.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 20:16

Psyclone wrote:Wraith, I have a sincere question for you and I honestly don't mean it as an attack; I'm genuinely curious. You've always been combative, but you you used to be a pretty big forum presence and you were active in a lot of threads. These days, I only ever see you here starting or prolonging arguments. Do you come here solely to get into fights (or "ideological debates" or whatever you want to call them) with people?


No. Actually, I had taken a sabbatical from all forms of social media. Facebook, forums, the whole 9. Then Trump got elected. It was big enough that I thought about posting about it by itself. But then I went to work the next day. In my current occupation, TVs line the walls with various new stations. 9 hours a day, I sit and I watch the world. And what I saw the past few days was utter insanity. People bashing in windows over bumper stickers or slogans. People filing false police reports to make the current situation look worse than it is; petitions for the Electoral College to ignore their responsibilities and elect Hillary anyway. And I wanted to talk about it. I [url=http://wraithtdk.livejournal.com/161931.html]wrote an article[/b] about the election, as I tend to do on big occasions, and I made some Facebook posts. Then - on the same day I watched a news story reporting from an American university setting up safe spaces filled with bubble, coloring books, playdough and puppies (I'm dead serious, those exact things) - I heard about this thread, and the whole "it's a safe space filled with hugs" thing and I posted my thoughts on safe space.

Then people responded to what I had to say; and so I, in turn, responded to what they had to say to me.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 12 Nov 2016, 20:21

Wraith wrote:
Psyclone wrote:Wraith, I have a sincere question for you and I honestly don't mean it as an attack; I'm genuinely curious. You've always been combative, but you you used to be a pretty big forum presence and you were active in a lot of threads. These days, I only ever see you here starting or prolonging arguments. Do you come here solely to get into fights (or "ideological debates" or whatever you want to call them) with people?


No. Actually, I had taken a sabbatical from all forms of social media. Facebook, forums, the whole 9. Then Trump got elected. It was big enough that I thought about posting about it by itself. But then I went to work the next day. In my current occupation, TVs line the walls with various new stations. 9 hours a day, I sit and I watch the world. And what I saw the past few days was utter insanity. People bashing in windows over bumper stickers or slogans. People filing false police reports to make the current situation look worse than it is; petitions for the Electoral College to ignore their responsibilities and elect Hillary anyway. And I wanted to talk about it. I [url=http://wraithtdk.livejournal.com/161931.html]wrote an article[/b] about the election, as I tend to do on big occasions, and I made some Facebook posts. Then - on the same day I watched a news story reporting from an American university setting up safe spaces filled with bubble, coloring books, playdough and puppies (I'm dead serious, those exact things) - I heard about this thread, and the whole "it's a safe space filled with hugs" thing and I posted my thoughts on safe space.

Then people responded to what I had to say; and so I, in turn, responded to what they had to say to me.




I know I said I thought you were a troll, but this swayed me a little. After talking to a friend I've got this to say.

Alright, can we agree to disagree on this particular space?

I realize your image of a safe space is the same one I find so irritating too.

So what I see in this, you might not. That's my two cents. You're right I shouldn't get so puffed up, but hey I get protective.

Fair enough?

I agree with you on some core points I just disagree in this case with this specific group.

This isn't the same sort of 'safe space' but if you didn't know that, it looks the same. So...

Agree to agree on most safe spaces but disagree on this one?
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Psyclone » 12 Nov 2016, 20:23

Alright, fair enough. Thanks for answering me. I don't think I agree with a single thing you've said in this thread so far or the place you chose to express your thoughts, but thank you for responding to what in hindsight was a kind of rudely worded question.

I do hope you're taking care of yourself and not burning out on your constant inundation of news, and (maybe, I don't know if you're watching) enjoying desert bus.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby CamelKnackRambleHort » 12 Nov 2016, 21:19

Wraith wrote:
CamelKnackRambleHort wrote:You know, I used to think tough love and facing your problems head on was a good idea. I did that for the first 29 years or so of my life. It made me miserable. It caused me to obsess over my problems. It drove me to the edge of suicide. It did not make me stronger. It made me weaker.


How do you know? How do you know that if you had been coddled all your life, that when you faced whatever it was that nearly led you to suicide, that you wouln’t have just taken the plunge and done it? Have you ever stopped to consider that perhaps the reason that you drive to the edge of suicide, but did not actually jump, was because you dealt with enough shit before that you had grown strong enough to handle it?

Your problems made your life miserable. Shocking. That’s what problems do. And life is full of them. Always will be. You can cower and hide from reality, or you can man up and deal with it. You do the former, you’ll feel better while you’re walled away from the world, but all you’re doing is making yourself weaker and more fragile; and one day, you’re going to face a problem from whence there is no “safe space.” And when you do? Your inability to cope will be the end of you. There’s a reason people are offing themselves over Twitter drama.

CamelKnackRambleHort wrote:
Maybe your strategy worked for you Wraith. I am glad it did for you. It doesn't work for everybody. It didn't work for me. Is it really inconceivable that not everyone is like you in this particular way? I mean, is it not possible that different people have different needs?


Scientists estimate that human beings have been on earth for 200,000 years. We were hunted by animals who were higher on the foodchain. We face global pandemics. Natural disasters. Famine. War. Destruction and horrors unlike any of us will hopefully ever see.

We’re still here. And we got by without grown adults taking refuge in rooms setup for them hide from reality and get treated like children. 200,000 years. How many people do you think have come and gone since then? Trillions? Quadrillions? And yet all of a sudden, after 2,000 centuries of human evolution, suddenly we can’t deal with the world unless we can run away to little rooms with playdough and puppies?

Not buying it.

You think you need that stuff because you’ve been told you do. You don’t. You’re not made of glass. You are not a delicate snowflake. You will not melt away because someone with a differing opinion came to speak at your school, or some skeevy orange nightmare became president, or some mean old man said something harsh on your favorite forum. Depending on your beliefs, you’re either crafted by the flawless, error-proof hands of the all-mighty, or else you are literally comprised of star-matter come to earth; the pinnacle of thousands of years of evolutionary success. You do not need playdough and puppies to get by.

CamelKnackRambleHort wrote: You have said that the reason why people don't have coping mechanisms is that they have been too sheltered. How much is too much? And how do you know people who try to seek shelter here have been over sheltered? How do you know that any of us have?


Well, for starters, when people say things like
vorox4 wrote:the newly dubbed stream shelter would move to another stream, and another, and another, giving people a place where they can feel safe, appreciated, and covered in hugs.

Because their candidate didn’t win the presidential election, I find that a little disconcerting.


Did I say I thought I was a delicate snow flake? No. I am tough as nails. You don't make it as a highly visible trans woman in a red state without being a rock. You know nothing about me. You are making massive, sweeping assumptions about what I think and who I am based purely on the stereotypes you believe about the type of people you see as "coddled". You have decided you know me better than I know myself based on what, three entire forum posts? What a joke.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 12 Nov 2016, 21:22

ReilaOda wrote:Alright, can we agree to disagree on this particular space?

I realize your image of a safe space is the same one I find so irritating too.

So what I see in this, you might not. That's my two cents. You're right I shouldn't get so puffed up, but hey I get protective.

Fair enough?

I agree with you on some core points I just disagree in this case with this specific group.

This isn't the same sort of 'safe space' but if you didn't know that, it looks the same. So...

Agree to agree on most safe spaces but disagree on this one?


Totes. We're good dragon lady.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Deedles » 12 Nov 2016, 21:27

Wraith wrote:
Deedles wrote:No, I did not, but there is a difference between hearing and listening, and to me you seem to of been doing the former.


I take the time to ponder and compose a response to every point someone makes, but I’m not listening…what…because I don’t see things your way? Because you’re just so clearly right, that anyone who doesn’t see things your was isn’t listening?

Nice.


If you think making meticulous responses is the same as listening then you and I have very different meanings for the word.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 12 Nov 2016, 21:29

Wraith wrote:
ReilaOda wrote:Alright, can we agree to disagree on this particular space?

I realize your image of a safe space is the same one I find so irritating too.

So what I see in this, you might not. That's my two cents. You're right I shouldn't get so puffed up, but hey I get protective.

Fair enough?

I agree with you on some core points I just disagree in this case with this specific group.

This isn't the same sort of 'safe space' but if you didn't know that, it looks the same. So...

Agree to agree on most safe spaces but disagree on this one?


Totes. We're good dragon lady.


Heh, they call me Mama Dragon sometimes cause I get super protective. o7 good to see things are smoothed out. Onward, to glory.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby JustAName » 12 Nov 2016, 23:41

Oh for hell. I go to sleep for a bit and this happens?

I'm glad things have cooled back down anyway. Wraith, I was responding as a mod, not as an individual. I can't just "not read the thread" when someone already reported you.

As it is, things seem fine now but I wanted to prevent any big blow-ups from happening while the crew were focused elsewhere. >.<
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 13 Nov 2016, 08:00

CamelKnackRambleHort wrote:Did I say I thought I was a delicate snow flake? No. I am tough as nails. You don't make it as a highly visible trans woman in a red state without being a rock.


First of all, THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I JUST SAID TO YOU. That’s my entire fucking point. I didn’t say you WERE delicate snowflake. You fucking quoted what I said. Look at YOUR OWN QUOTE. I said “You are not a delicate snowflake. You will not melt away” If you’d take off your little victim hat long enough to actually listen to what I’m saying, you’d get that.

You’re tough as nails. Great. So you don’t need to retreat from reality like a child.

Second, if you consider yourself “tough as nails,” have you considered that perhaps all the tough love you say you received growing up is what got you there? You claim “it made you weaker,” yet here you are, a “highly visible trans woman in a red state, who is tough as nails.”

Maybe there’s a connection.

CamelKnackRambleHort wrote: You know nothing about me. You are making massive, sweeping assumptions about what I think and who I am based purely on the stereotypes you believe about the type of people you see as "coddled".


No, actually, I’m not. I’m doing the exact same thing you did. I’m responding directly to what you said. If you don’t like people doing that, then choose your words more carefully, Tumblrina.

Name one “sweeping generalization” I made about you. Just one.

The first paragraph, I asked if you had considered that perhaps it was the tough love that prevented you from jumping over the edge that time. That’s not a “sweeping generalization” that a question about very specific circumstances that you related to me.

The second paragraph was about what happens when people spend all their time running from problems. That wasn’t even specifically about you so much as a warning regarding what happens when people retreat from their problems instead of facing them head on.

Third and fourth paragraph boil down to “you are meant to be great, you have it inside you, stop doubting it.” If that’s an “unfair sweeping generalization about you” then I am so very sorry. Let me know and I’ll make sure to treat you like you’re insignificant; if that will make you feel better.

Fifth paragraph is, again, telling you are NOT a delicate snowflake, and you DON’T need to be protected from reality. If that’s a “sweeping generalization” about you, then don’t come here telling me you’re “tough as nails.”

FFS, this isn’t Tumblr. Stop crying about things no one actually said to you and listen.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Wraith » 13 Nov 2016, 08:00

Deedles wrote:If you think making meticulous responses is the same as listening then you and I have very different meanings for the word.


The former is not possible without the latter. You can’t provide well-considered responses without pondering what’s been said to you. You can’t ponder what’s been said to you without listening to what’s been said to you.

Again, just because I don’t agree doesn’t mean I don’t listen. By your logic, you haven’t listened to a damned word I’ve said.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby JustAName » 13 Nov 2016, 08:23

I have banned Wraith from posting until the 19th of November. I will do the same to anyone who continues to post in this thread in an aggressive manner before Desert Bus ends.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Elomin Sha » 13 Nov 2016, 10:25

I'm safe then.

I wonder how many reports I've had against me.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby J_S_Bach » 13 Nov 2016, 11:24

Fayili wrote:I have banned Wraith from posting until the 19th of November. I will do the same to anyone who continues to post in this thread in an aggressive manner before Desert Bus ends.



I suppose it is easier to ignore things you don't agree with. I think Wraith was making some interesting and controversial points.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Elomin Sha » 13 Nov 2016, 11:33

Banning is kind of a silly move. When LRR were more active, the only time people were banned was due to being a complete asshole, not a difference of opinion.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Dutch guy » 13 Nov 2016, 11:33

I know wraith can be a bit confrontational but I would not go so far as to call him aggressive (Trust me, I've seen/watched Wraith being agressive. This is just him having a strong opinion and or differing view on things). To be honest I personally don't think banning him is the right call.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby JustAName » 13 Nov 2016, 11:35

I would have locked the thread until the 19th, but I spoke before I thought, and found that I don't actually have thread locking permissions. So time-banning individuals is the next best thing.

Again, just until DB is over.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 13 Nov 2016, 11:47

I like the guy, agree with him much of the time, and would like to hang out and have a lunch with him or something. However, I always think I'm abrasive as sandpaper... but I'm silk compared to him.

When you're off-putting to those who are "on your side"... something's definitely up about your conversational style.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Elomin Sha » 13 Nov 2016, 11:50

If you want aggressive Wraith look at how he dealth with stinkychops and the whole DHI debacle. It's kind of bad that he defended this place and he gets treated like that.
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