The voxlunch stream shelter thread

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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby JustAName » 13 Nov 2016, 11:57

Okay.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 13 Nov 2016, 12:09

I don't know what any of that means. Must've happened before my time. I've been here... 4 years it seems?

And I didn't say he was aggressive. I said he was abrasive. There's a difference.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Elomin Sha » 13 Nov 2016, 12:14

It was before you time, it was when LRR started eNN on the Escapist. Granted the acting wasn't great to begin with. The DHI was started by someone who had his show on Escapist cancelled, I think, and wanted to get back at them so made a version of Encyclopedia Dramatica. It was meant to be funny. It wasn't, I'm British, I know how abusive humour works, they didn't.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Sieg Reyu » 13 Nov 2016, 12:40

Hey King Kool, you still lurking this thread? Remember the knock down drag out we had about Desert Bus? I'd link to it but I changed all my posts to strawmen in the heat of the moment at one point because I got butthurt, so it's kind of nonsense at this point. Remember how they had to ban one of us because that is how mature people solve problems? Oh, right, that didn't happen. I tell you what I do remember, both of us getting over it and letting it blow over, and you offering to split a room with me for LRRcon later on, because you're rad. I know you don't have a dog in this fight, or at least are keeping it out of it, I'm not tying to drag you in to it, you're just the only example I can think of at the moment.

If having a differing opinion is enough to get you blocked for a week, you can just go ahead and sign me up for a lifetime ban.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby King Kool » 13 Nov 2016, 14:30

Not DB, that was Strip Search, right?

I had mostly forgotten about that. I'd probably forgotten about it by the time LRRCON came around.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 13 Nov 2016, 14:50

Elomin Sha wrote:I'm safe then.

I wonder how many reports I've had against me.



None as far as I am aware of. I'm pretty sure our misunderstanding was hammered out so quickly no one cared to report it. Certainly didn't bug me enough to report anything.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Elomin Sha » 13 Nov 2016, 15:03

I didn't think you would.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 13 Nov 2016, 15:44

I personally would have let Wraith be, in the name of equitability. From my perspective, Wraith was being no more abrasive than those he was arguing with- he was just in an environment where his view was in the minority, so a greater number of people felt like he was rubbing them up the wrong way. At no point did he accuse anyone of being a troll.

Frankly, I've been somewhat disappointed with the discussion taking place on this thread. I think everyone could have explained themselves better and not spoken as though this was an argument to be won and lost.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby JustAName » 13 Nov 2016, 15:46

I do wish I could have locked the thread.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Elomin Sha » 13 Nov 2016, 16:29

That wouldn't help the situation, it would make it a little worse. Banning Wraith proves it.

I know you mean well Fayili, but I say sincerely you are a little overly protective to people. I know you have good intentions and reasons but you're not a guardian to all.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Sieg Reyu » 13 Nov 2016, 16:41

King Kool wrote:Not DB, that was Strip Search, right?

I had mostly forgotten about that. I'd probably forgotten about it by the time LRRCON came around.

I'm going to pretend I meant to say Desert Bus because it happened it a thread about people wanting Strip Search guests on Desert Bus.


But yeah, it was Strip Search. Ive been at a Lan party and was rolling on about 30 hours with no sleep when I posted it, I was a little bit delirious and also full of beans. And Im even more so now.

Somebody get at me. Hey Elomin, you got two butts and one of them is your face! Psuedonym? More like penisnym. I'M GONNA LIVE FOREVER!!!! *record breaking series of heart attacks*
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Elomin Sha » 13 Nov 2016, 16:49

That sounds about right about myself.

Side note: if you're just making the joke because Fayili can't lock the thread. Not a nice idea.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Psyclone » 13 Nov 2016, 17:00

Elomin Sha wrote:That wouldn't help the situation, it would make it a little worse. Banning Wraith proves it.

I know you mean well Fayili, but I say sincerely you are a little overly protective to people. I know you have good intentions and reasons but you're not a guardian to all.

I know I read more than I speak here, but I appreciate Fayili's attempts to keep this forum civil, regardless of her methods. I'm saying this now because I think you (and probably others) think that Fayili is acting only on her own opinions of what is "okay" and "not okay", so I'm stepping forward as one of the people she's protecting.

Wraith was being aggressive, condescending, and dismissive, and he was inhibiting any kind of real discussion that wasn't based on essay-length attacks. I personally didn't feel like I could speak up, which to be honest is how I feel most of the time here, and it usually feels like Fayili is the only one who's making an effort to keep these all-consuming arguments to a minimum. Your opinion on this may be shared by many forum members, Elomin, but it is not the only one.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Deedles » 13 Nov 2016, 17:20

I agree with with Psyclone on this. I like a good discussion as much as the next person, but what Wraith was doing did not look like a good discussion. He presumed and accused a lot on his own, even if he didn't do the specific thing of calling anyone a troll. And before anyone assumes that I'm saying this because I disagreed with Wraith; I didn't. I agree with him that being too coddled and sheltered can be really detrimental, and that just facing reality head on can be really good for you. I just didn't agree with the amount of tough love that he advocated, nor did I condone the way that he expressed himself.

I think Fayili's wish to lock the thread was a good one.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 13 Nov 2016, 17:24

Deedles wrote:I agree with with Psyclone on this. I like a good discussion as much as the next person, but what Wraith was doing did not look like a good discussion. He presumed and accused a lot on his own, even if he didn't do the specific thing of calling anyone a troll. And before anyone assumes that I'm saying this because I disagreed with Wraith; I didn't. I agree with him that being too coddled and sheltered can be really detrimental, and that just facing reality head on can be really good for you. I just didn't agree with the amount of tough love that he advocated, nor did I condone the way that he expressed himself.

I think Fayili's wish to lock the thread was a good one.



That's the thing on 99% of cases I agree with him too, he just refused to admit that this had a use period. Which is far to rigid to be productive in a conversation.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby jadamelio » 13 Nov 2016, 17:30

Coming in from the side lines to give input:

I agree with Psyclone that Wraith's conduct was very poor, and not as constructive towards discussion as I would like. And essay long posts make for longer and more incoherent posts down the line as people try and respond to each bit.

I don't agree with banning anyone over this just yet, that seems like a bandaid solution. Fayili, I think you are doing the right thing here trying to get this thread on track and inclusive, but I would have preferred if you had taken more steps, if possible, to resolve this so that everyone could participate.

I think ReilaOda's idea of an actual debate is the best. If anyone actually wanted to debate(not bicker) about the two topics at hand(Merits of Safe Spaces and the whole Free Speech or Asshole conversation) and they agreed to some productive codes of conduct, that would be ideal. If anyone gave that a pass and continued to be destructive, I am all for time bans.

That's my two cents, I would like to hear more from all y'all on this topic, because it is relevant and interesting but if we can't do that and take care of people/be civil, then giving it a rest sounds good :D
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby ReilaOda » 13 Nov 2016, 17:46

jadamelio wrote:Coming in from the side lines to give input:

I agree with Psyclone that Wraith's conduct was very poor, and not as constructive towards discussion as I would like. And essay long posts make for longer and more incoherent posts down the line as people try and respond to each bit.

I don't agree with banning anyone over this just yet, that seems like a bandaid solution. Fayili, I think you are doing the right thing here trying to get this thread on track and inclusive, but I would have preferred if you had taken more steps, if possible, to resolve this so that everyone could participate.

I think ReilaOda's idea of an actual debate is the best. If anyone actually wanted to debate(not bicker) about the two topics at hand(Merits of Safe Spaces and the whole Free Speech or Asshole conversation) and they agreed to some productive codes of conduct, that would be ideal. If anyone gave that a pass and continued to be destructive, I am all for time bans.

That's my two cents, I would like to hear more from all y'all on this topic, because it is relevant and interesting but if we can't do that and take care of people/be civil, then giving it a rest sounds good :D



I agree wholly and am more then happy to put my hat into the ring!
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Elomin Sha » 13 Nov 2016, 17:53

I know that there are other opinions. There is a point where it goes too far if something is repeated and not extended. If you cannot contribute more, why post the same thing that has been said? (Refering to some earlier posts).

I have mentioned in the past that I think some people have over stepped the mark, and seem refuse to own/acknowledge what they've done. Not everything that is done with the best intentions is correct. I get tetchy, one of my flaws, because I think: how can you not see what you're doing?

I think I have been the most consistent person on this forum (humble-ego-brag), so I tend to notice things when they change quite a bit. I've changed slightly, little more out going since I first joined.
I kept quiet for a while because it wasn't too much, but it did get very complacent about people not wanting to upset others. I joined in on a few things that others were doing to see if it was beneficial to do so or not. I then stepped back and saw thet the forum had become a very depressive place, and while help is offereded, not really enough or possibly the correct one (personal opinion). Through these varying posts it made the forum quiet and...crap. A lot of people left, top posters too, because it changed due to being quiet or from how some posters acted to others; those who estoll being nice but are inturn mean. It's not what this place used to be. Why would some people be here if it isn't fun anymore?

When was the last time you've seen the forum had this form activivity of old posters returning? Years? The forum has needed a jolt for a while. If you're wondering why I haven't left if I think this place has gone bad? I'm the gift that keeps on giving. The gift of Jericho. I think I'll stop with the Jericho references now.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Phailhammer » 13 Nov 2016, 18:33

Honestly, while I might not agree with banning Wraith, even temporarily, I think something had to be done. From what I could see, no-one was going to concede the point or back down. Sometimes you need to be forced to walk away, whether you're at fault or not.

I think you have it Elomin; people get techy because they cannot understand how the other cannot "see the light". Once that happens, the middle ground is lost if one or both sides can't see it the other way.

I'm not sure how useful my contribution is at this point, but I felt I wanted to say something. I also haven't posted in what, six months or something?
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Sieg Reyu » 13 Nov 2016, 19:22

Elomin Sha wrote:That sounds about right about myself.

Side note: if you're just making the joke because Fayili can't lock the thread. Not a nice idea.
Nah, by now, I'm approaching 36 hours of no sleep and I'm just full of piss and vinegar and I want to break the tension.


This is going to be a bit embarassing, but fuggit. So I joined the forums 10 years ago. Little over in fact. I was a young impressionable boy of 16 in High School, and these internet hooligans became my idols. So of course I came here to find like minded people. Wraith made an impression on me very early on. He just seemed a very no nonsense and straight forward individual. I think I remember him claiming to be Christian at the time, no idea if he still does, but at the time I was a rather devote Christian so I saw him as someone to look up to on the forums. Even if he did curse like a sailor.

At the time I joined, if I recall correctly, his profile picture was just a head shot of him in a dark room, couldn't really make out a whole lot. Then a little later on, he changed to the picture he still rocks to this day. If I'm not wrong he's been rocking it for something like 9 years. I was extremely confused when I saw that picture. I just couldn't wrap my head around the idea that this ripped buff dude was on the internet, talking in a forum devoted to nerdy comedians, about computers n shit. It just didn't make sense to my poor underdeveloped mind. People like that only like sports. I figured the picture was of a wrestler or someone else making videos online. When I found out that it was in fact a picture of him, it destroyed my world a little bit. I'd always kind've told myself that people aren't stereotypes, usually in regards to racism, but this was when I finally started to understand it. You can pound weight at the gym and then go home and play Pokemon. People can be whoever the fuck they wanna be.

When you're talking to people online, especially arguing with them, its hard to know where they are coming from when you don't know them. I consider myself part of the "Old Guard" and there were a ton of us who came in and were active all at once. Sure, there were people who had been around even longer, but Mac vs PC, Talk Like a Pirate, Rejected Wii Games all brought in a lot of traffic around the same time. So we had the luxury of all starting off on the same foot together. The forums were downright popping in those days. You could make a thread one day and have it bumped off the main page by new threads in a day That's why we have the subforums now. So there was a lot of opportunity for everyone to find out where each other is coming from. As the numbers continued to grow, so did the discussion and the sense of camraderie.

But times change. With the videos being posted to youtube now, there isn't much reason to come to the website. And by engaging with LRR through twitter or the streams, there is even less reason to come to the forums. Personally, I only come to the forums a couple of times a year. All the casual laid-back chatter has migrated elsewhere, so all that is left is the levity laden posts. I feel like this has caused a divide between the older people, especially those who don't participate in the stream chat, like myself, and the new fans. We just don't know each other. Which brings me back to the point I was making earlier.

So when you don;t know someone, and you are arguing with them, it's hard to read the tone or attitude they are coming at you with, or perhaps know the context of that tone. It's easy to look at Wraith's profile picture and see an ultra-male who built the patriarchy with his own two hands. And true he can be a bit of a dick, but the kind of dick you like to bitch about stuff with at the end of a stressful day, or that has your back if a fight breaks out. And so yeah maybe he gets a bit too vehement in his arguments. So what? I didn't realize it was a bannable offense to be overly contrary. I'm not going to sit here and try to tell you he wasn't a bit dickish. But Titty Jesus-fucking Christ, no one is perfect. Afterall, he's a dick because he wants the world to be a better place, and he's upset because he is constantly reminded that it isn't. Maybe I'm overreaching here, I might as well be high right now. I'm about this close to vegging out to trippy music videos.

Is there a LoadingReadyRun Discord? I feel like there should be. I feel like you get to know people a hell of a lot better once you hear their voice. Plus the chat is a great place casual chatter. Someone get on that. I'm going to bed. I expect to see my gold medal for winning this thread when I get back. Love you all, even when I don't agree with you (like if you say this post isn't Oscar worthy. Fuck you but I still love you.)
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Atifexe » 13 Nov 2016, 20:27

If I may hop in...

This has been said, and I'll say it again - I feel like the original intent of this thread was to announce a thing that we were doing for those who were interested, and to assist in coordinating it. This other conversation that has grown from that has severely inhibited that original purpose. To that end, I suggest the removal of this discussion from this thread for another (or the repurposing of this thread to accommodate that discussion, and the creation of a new one to organize what we're trying to do).
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby AdmiralMemo » 13 Nov 2016, 20:45

Just for info: There's been a LRR Discord for some time.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Avistew » 13 Nov 2016, 22:32

I was following this thread with interest, and suddenly, a post saying that Wraith is banned temporarily, after he's agreed to disagree with one of the posters, and been from what I could see no worse than several people who disagreed with him and were not banned. Locking the thread would have been a bad idea, but this was even worse. It makes it look like anyone who disagrees with the majority opinion here is silenced. If you can't take care of the forums while Desert bus is going on, shut down the whole forum for cause of Desert Bus or something. This reaction just looked like the kind of things Wraith was talking about of Trump voters getting assaulted without any concern about why they voted for Trump, because they voted differently so of course they must be racist, sexist, islamophobic, homophobic and so on, which clearly isn't actually the case, and even if it was, assaulting them would not be okay.

Definitely the wrong call here. I sent him a PM in solidarity but since I have no idea if he can read PMs or respond (and because I don't want to just state my solidarity in private like I'm ashamed of it or something), I thought I'd state it here too for the record.

Now if the problem is that this is the wrong thread for the current discussion, maybe a solution would have been to create a new thread and direct people to it.
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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Elomin Sha » 14 Nov 2016, 07:11

Phailhammer wrote:I'm not sure how useful my contribution is at this point, but I felt I wanted to say something. I also haven't posted in what, six months or something?


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Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread

Postby Elomin Sha » 14 Nov 2016, 07:12

Avistew, Wraith can't see PMs so I passed the message on to him. He appreciates it.
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