Re: The voxlunch stream shelter thread
Posted: 12 Nov 2016, 12:22
No rules stating that a thread is exclusively one thing.
Sketch comedy. It's funny.
https://loadingreadyrun.com/forum/
Wraith wrote:Yes, but Fay, you don't need to be "impartial," you don't need to be anything. This just perfectly illustrates what I've been saying about people running from what bothers them. We dont need a forum mommy to protect us from adult conversation. We're adults.
I tried to get you to understand this point years ago: if you don't like what's being said in a discussion thread, instead of breaking down, or worse, locking down any conversation where people aren't espousing your own views...just don't open the thread. Ignore it. If you can't engage in adult conversation, if listening to ideas that contradict your own is a traumatic experience for you, then just bow out and let the rest of us talk.
ReilaOda wrote:Elomin Sha wrote:It's also not my fault Oda decided chose to be petty and not address me by name with an accusation of being negative. Unnecessarily passive-aggressive showing a lack of character on their behalf (No attempt at saying my character is perfect). I responded fairly.
Correction. I didn't want to name call and point fingers. When I said bulldozer it's a term of endearment. It means you power through your poblems and don't let them get you down. That's a good thing. Your accusation of it being passive aggressive implies that I meant it harmfully. Showing a lack of character is again the wrong turn of phrase. It isn't your fault I chose to bristle at an accusation, as it isn't my fault that you chose to bristle at my comment. It's a misunderstanding.
CamelKnackRambleHort wrote:You know, I used to think tough love and facing your problems head on was a good idea. I did that for the first 29 years or so of my life. It made me miserable. It caused me to obsess over my problems. It drove me to the edge of suicide. It did not make me stronger. It made me weaker.
CamelKnackRambleHort wrote:
Maybe your strategy worked for you Wraith. I am glad it did for you. It doesn't work for everybody. It didn't work for me. Is it really inconceivable that not everyone is like you in this particular way? I mean, is it not possible that different people have different needs?
CamelKnackRambleHort wrote: You have said that the reason why people don't have coping mechanisms is that they have been too sheltered. How much is too much? And how do you know people who try to seek shelter here have been over sheltered? How do you know that any of us have?
vorox4 wrote:the newly dubbed stream shelter would move to another stream, and another, and another, giving people a place where they can feel safe, appreciated, and covered in hugs.
Arclight_Dynamo wrote:"Tough love" nearly killed me. No joke.
Arclight_Dynamo wrote:"Tough love" is a terrible thing to inflict on someone who has depression and an anxiety disorder. "Tough love" nearly ruined - nearly ended - my life.
Arclight_Dynamo wrote:Not to mention most of the time I've run into "tough love," it's really just been an excuse to abuse and bully. An excuse to ignore pleas for help.
Fuck "tough love."
Arclight_Dynamo wrote: People here are saying "Here's this thing that makes my life easier. It allows me to have the mental resources to deal with life, in an 'adult way,' day in and day out. It improves my life."
Arclight_Dynamo wrote:You're saying "I don't care if you say it helps you. You shouldn't rely on it. Even if it helps. Because I don't find it helpful and don't need it, I don't want you to find it helpful or need it. Do what I do and be like me, even if that doesn't work for you."
Surely you see how that's kind of shitty?
Jenelmo wrote:Wraith wrote:I tried to get you to understand this point years ago: if you don't like what's being said in a discussion thread, instead of breaking down, or worse, locking down any conversation where people aren't espousing your own views...just don't open the thread
As I read the original post in this thread, this was not meant as a discussion thread, It was a thread to inform people of something that was happening and if you was interested you could join, kind of like the secret santa thread.
ReilaOda wrote:We can handle your opinion,
ReilaOda wrote: the thread being locked down is stating this isn't the thread, to be having this debate on.
ReilaOda wrote: You want to get on discord, skype, google hangouts, and have this talk one on one. Lets go, I'm not afraid to be challenged.
ReilaOda wrote: You're the one rampaging around going on and on about tough love, when we've demonstrated time and time again to have the resources to talk to you.
ReilaOda wrote: You selectively quote points you want to target and ignored my explanation of what this was entirely. It's not that we can't take you on, it's that we don't feel it a valuable investment.
Wraith wrote:ReilaOda wrote:We can handle your opinion,
Yes you can. That’s my point. You’re adults. You don’t need mommy covering your poor virgin ears. So why lock it?ReilaOda wrote: the thread being locked down is stating this isn't the thread, to be having this debate on.
Then stop debating. Problem solved. If you don’t want to see what people are discussing, stop looking at it. If you don’t want to debate, stop debating. You have the power and the agency to control how you interact with this thread, if at all.
Use it.ReilaOda wrote: You want to get on discord, skype, google hangouts, and have this talk one on one. Lets go, I'm not afraid to be challenged.
Oh FFS, this isn’t a second grade playground. I’m not here to “challenge you.” I came to share my thoughts on an issue. You know, once upon a time, adults had conversations about issues facing the world, and they didn’t need to agree with each other to have such conversations. But they were still just conversations. Not fights, not debates, no one is “challenging” you.ReilaOda wrote: You're the one rampaging around going on and on about tough love, when we've demonstrated time and time again to have the resources to talk to you.
You think this is a rampage?
That’s cute.
Also, I should point out, Pixel started talking about “tough love.” Not me. I just said “don’t hide from your problems.” After school special cartoons used to say that.ReilaOda wrote: You selectively quote points you want to target and ignored my explanation of what this was entirely. It's not that we can't take you on, it's that we don't feel it a valuable investment.
1. I’m not looking “to get taken on.” I’m looking to share what I’ve learned in life. Not everything is an attack on you.
2. Man, I came here 10 years ago, and you know what the most common complaint about my posting style was? “Why do you have to quote EVERYTHING we say? Your posts are so long, GOD!” Damned if I do, damned if I don’t. Simply put, I don’t disagree with everything you’ve said. Some of it I simply see no reason to respond to. To be perfectly honest, had your later explanations of what you’re presenting been your initial explanation, I probably wouldn’t be here. But your initial explanation, the one that brought me here? Was NOT “we’re putting up a virtual speakeasy. Come take your mind off the chaos. That’s reasonable. Your initial presentation was “come be safe and take shelter from the bad men outside who are threatening you. We’ll give you hugs and tell you you’re appreciated.”
3. If you don’t’ feel it’s a valuable investment? Then why are you still here? I’ll never understand why people do this. They make this big showing of telling me how not worth their time they are, and how I need to just stop arguing. Listen closely: if you think I’m not worth your precious time, or you don’t want to argue, then just stop talking to me. Don’t respond. Believe it or not, I’m not a troll. I’m not hear to haunt you. I have never followed someone from one thread to another, or gone on their social media pages to “challenge” them or demand they come back. I make a post in a thread. If no one says anything about it, that’s the end of it. If you engage and respond to me, I’m going to respond back. It takes two, man. You can TALK all you want me not being worth your time, but it rings pretty hollow when you continue to SPEND your time talking to me anyway.
Elomin Sha wrote:ReilaOda wrote:Elomin Sha wrote:It's also not my fault Oda decided chose to be petty and not address me by name with an accusation of being negative. Unnecessarily passive-aggressive showing a lack of character on their behalf (No attempt at saying my character is perfect). I responded fairly.
Correction. I didn't want to name call and point fingers. When I said bulldozer it's a term of endearment. It means you power through your poblems and don't let them get you down. That's a good thing. Your accusation of it being passive aggressive implies that I meant it harmfully. Showing a lack of character is again the wrong turn of phrase. It isn't your fault I chose to bristle at an accusation, as it isn't my fault that you chose to bristle at my comment. It's a misunderstanding.
Actually, if you 'bristled' as you said, it kind of is a fault on your behalf because you chose to. Letting emotion run unchecked is not productive. I didn't bristle because I did not react out angrily or defensively. As I said I was laughing as I wrote my final paragraph, but everythign else was emotionless and clean with wording. It is pretty much impossible for me to get angry. That why I wrote about nuiance.
It wasn't the bulldozer comment I said passive-aggressive to, it was that you referred to me not by name but as a negative person (it isn't hard to guess who you were refering to). Example of what I mean: Texting on Twitter* To the guy speaking too loudly in the queue behind me, shut up.
It showed that you did not want to respond directly to me, that's why I didn't take you seriously towards the end.
Anyway, welcome again.
ReilaOda wrote:Wraith wrote:If you don’t’ feel it’s a valuable investment? Then why are you still here? I’ll never understand why people do this. They make this big showing of telling me how not worth their time they are, and how I need to just stop arguing. Listen closely: if you think I’m not worth your precious time, or you don’t want to argue, then just stop talking to me. Don’t respond. Believe it or not, I’m not a troll. I’m not hear to haunt you. I have never followed someone from one thread to another, or gone on their social media pages to “challenge” them or demand they come back. I make a post in a thread. If no one says anything about it, that’s the end of it. If you engage and respond to me, I’m going to respond back. It takes two, man. You can TALK all you want me not being worth your time, but it rings pretty hollow when you continue to SPEND your time talking to me anyway.
I'm no longer spending time on your shenanigans, is what I'm saying.
ReilaOda wrote: This is the last reply you're getting from me, as I said, in what I thought was a clear exit. You aren't, worth, my time.
ReilaOda wrote: This is the last you're getting from me. Go ahead, try and goad. It wont work.
Wraith wrote:I’m not looking “to get taken on.” I’m looking to share what I’ve learned in life. Not everything is an attack on you.
Wraith wrote:Oh FFS, this isn’t a second grade playground. I’m not here to “challenge you.” I came to share my thoughts on an issue. You know, once upon a time, adults had conversations about issues facing the world, and they didn’t need to agree with each other to havesuch conversations. But they were still just conversations. Not fights, not debates, no one is “challenging” you.
Wraith wrote:stop debating. Problem solved. If you don’t want to see what people are discussing, stop looking at it. If you don’t want to debate, stop debating. You have the power and the agency to control how you interact with this thread, if at all.
Use it.
Wraith wrote:
What part of this says to you that I have any interest in “goading you?” I’m just a windmill, Mr. Quixote. Put the lance away.
ReilaOda wrote:If that is something you take issue with, I have no reason to engage you, because as far as I'm concerned it's pointless drivel. Yes I mean that. The fact of the matter is we don't freak out when someone has a storm basement, why the heck is a virtual one any different? "Because it's not really a threat and it's just people" of course it isn't a threat. Is it likely anyone will be hurt? No. Is it proper for people to use time and wind down so they can approach life with a more reasoned point of view? Yes. Then why the flying heck is this a problem.
ReilaOda wrote:Telling afraid people, to calm down, and not be afraid is one of the most insidious things I've heard in casual conversation.
Deedles wrote:Seriously, Wraith? For someone who claims to be an adult you're acting kind of childish. Chill out. If you don't think the Voxlunch Stream Shelter is a good idea then you don't have to take part, but it legitimately helps other people. Not everyone works the same way that you do, just face that fact and move on.
Wraith wrote:ReilaOda wrote:If that is something you take issue with, I have no reason to engage you, because as far as I'm concerned it's pointless drivel. Yes I mean that. The fact of the matter is we don't freak out when someone has a storm basement, why the heck is a virtual one any different? "Because it's not really a threat and it's just people" of course it isn't a threat. Is it likely anyone will be hurt? No. Is it proper for people to use time and wind down so they can approach life with a more reasoned point of view? Yes. Then why the flying heck is this a problem.
O_o Why did you use the storm basement analogy, and then explain why the storm basement analogy isn’t a very good analogy?ReilaOda wrote:Telling afraid people, to calm down, and not be afraid is one of the most insidious things I've heard in casual conversation.
…seriously? That’s “insidious?” Telling people not to be afraid? So what do you do in your little shelter? Tell them “oh hell yea, you should be terrified?”
Unless you’ve fetishized your victim complex, that’s not going to make anyone feel better.Deedles wrote:Seriously, Wraith? For someone who claims to be an adult you're acting kind of childish. Chill out. If you don't think the Voxlunch Stream Shelter is a good idea then you don't have to take part, but it legitimately helps other people. Not everyone works the same way that you do, just face that fact and move on.
Oh Deedles. Have you forgotten who I am? What I’m like when I’m mad? I am entirely “chilled out” right now. You people keep saying “not everyone works the same way that I do.” Have you considered taking that advice to heart? That not everyone works the same way that you do? That maybe sometimes a cup of black coffee and some cold water splashed on the face is more in order than a nap and some herbal tea?
ReilaOda wrote:No, we tell them it will be OK and we will move on. We got this.
ReilaOda wrote: You keep equating us to a 'victim complex' that isn't the point.
ReilaOda wrote: The point is to give people a rallying point so they can dool cool shit IN THE WORLD AND NOT FEEL LIKE VICTIMS. For FUCK SAKE man.
Wraith wrote:Deedles wrote:Seriously, Wraith? For someone who claims to be an adult you're acting kind of childish. Chill out. If you don't think the Voxlunch Stream Shelter is a good idea then you don't have to take part, but it legitimately helps other people. Not everyone works the same way that you do, just face that fact and move on.
Oh Deedles. Have you forgotten who I am? What I’m like when I’m mad? I am entirely “chilled out” right now. You people keep saying “not everyone works the same way that I do.” Have you considered taking that advice to heart? That not everyone works the same way that you do? That maybe sometimes a cup of black coffee and some cold water splashed on the face is more in order than a nap and some herbal tea?
Deedles wrote:Yeah, I remember, Wraith. Whether you're angry or not, you're being rather forceful, and you're not really listening to what people are trying to tell you.
Wraith wrote:ReilaOda wrote:No, we tell them it will be OK and we will move on. We got this.
So “It will be OK” is supportive, but “don’t be afraid” is “insidious?” Dafuq? WTF is the difference? What,
“it’s going to be OK, but you should still TOTALLY be afraid?”
“We got this, but rest assured, you’re totally correct in thinking that you can’t handle it?”
You’re kind of all over the place right now.ReilaOda wrote: You keep equating us to a 'victim complex' that isn't the point.
I said “victim complex” a total of ONCE, and that was when you said that “telling people not to be afraid was the most insidious thing you’d ever heard in casual conversation.”
The point was the only way it’s “insidious” to tell people NOT to be afraid is if they PREFER to be afraid. Which is behavior symptomatic of…say it with me now…someone with a victim complex.ReilaOda wrote: The point is to give people a rallying point so they can dool cool shit IN THE WORLD AND NOT FEEL LIKE VICTIMS. For FUCK SAKE man.
And you’re going to accomplish that by telling them that by telling them that they’re incapable of handling what’s going on outside, and that they should totally be afraid (because it would be "insidious" not to)?
Because that sounds an AWFUL lot like casting someone as a victim to me.
But what do I know? I'm just quoting something that you CLEARLY never actually said, because "I'm not worthy of your time, and your done with my shenanigans and will not be goaded into returning."
Wraith wrote:Deedles wrote:Yeah, I remember, Wraith. Whether you're angry or not, you're being rather forceful, and you're not really listening to what people are trying to tell you.
Nonsense. I’m not agreeing with what people are telling me. That doesn’t mean I’m not listening. There’s a reason I quote and respond. I read every word that’s written, I consider every point that’s made -every single one of them- and once it’s been pondered, I respond.
Or did you think I predicted every single word you would say and just copy and pasted my answers?
ReilaOda wrote:You keep putting words in my mouth, OK no more Miss Nice Rei Rei, time to tear your argument apart word by word. You finally have mama dragons attention. Revel in it. Lets start with your first assumption.
Wraith wrote:ReilaOda wrote: the thread being locked down is stating this isn't the thread, to be having this debate on.
Then stop debating. Problem solved. If you don’t want to see what people are discussing, stop looking at it. If you don’t want to debate, stop debating. You have the power and the agency to control how you interact with this thread, if at all.
Use it.
Wraith wrote:ReilaOda wrote: You want to get on discord, skype, google hangouts, and have this talk one on one. Lets go, I'm not afraid to be challenged.
Oh FFS, this isn’t a second grade playground. I’m not here to “challenge you.” I came to share my thoughts on an issue. You know, once upon a time, adults had conversations about issues facing the world, and they didn’t need to agree with each other to have such conversations. But they were still just conversations. Not fights, not debates, no one is “challenging” you.
Wraith wrote:ReilaOda wrote: It's not that we can't take you on, it's that we don't feel it a valuable investment.
...If you don’t’ feel it’s a valuable investment? Then why are you still here? I’ll never understand why people do this. They make this big showing of telling me how not worth their time they are, and how I need to just stop arguing. Listen closely: if you think I’m not worth your precious time, or you don’t want to argue, then just stop talking to me. Don’t respond. Believe it or not, I’m not a troll. I’m not hear to haunt you. I have never followed someone from one thread to another, or gone on their social media pages to “challenge” them or demand they come back. I make a post in a thread. If no one says anything about it, that’s the end of it. If you engage and respond to me, I’m going to respond back. It takes two, man. You can TALK all you want me not being worth your time, but it rings pretty hollow when you continue to SPEND your time talking to me anyway.
ReilaOda wrote:I'm no longer spending time on your shenanigans, is what I'm saying. This post on, you aren't worth the time and energy spent arguing with someone convinced that he's right when he's misinterpreting what's happening and has been told a number of times what it's purpose is.
This is the last you're getting from me. Go ahead, try and goad. It wont work.
Wraith wrote:ReilaOda wrote:
I'm no longer spending time on your shenanigans, is what I'm saying.
Yea…that’s what you’re saying.
That’s what you’re still saying.
And in doing so, you’ve illustrated my point, beautifully. You said I wasn’t worth your time in your last comment. And I responded by saying “ok, cool, I’m not WORTH your time so stop SPENDING your time on responding to me.”
And yet, here you are. Spending even MORE of your time to just to make ABSOLUTELY SURE that I know just HOW very unworthy of your time I am.
Action speaks louder than words, bro.
Wraith wrote:ReilaOda wrote: This is the last reply you're getting from me, as I said, in what I thought was a clear exit. You aren't, worth, my time.
Yea, see, it WOULD have been a clear exit.
But then you came back.
The whole “be the bigger man and make a grand exist speech about how I’m below you and you’re taking the high road and leaving” thing?
It only works once, and then only if you actually leave. The moment you come back?
Total waste of breath.
ReilaOda wrote:Wraith wrote:So “It will be OK” is supportive, but “don’t be afraid” is “insidious?” Dafuq? WTF is the difference? What,
“it’s going to be OK, but you should still TOTALLY be afraid?”
“We got this, but rest assured, you’re totally correct in thinking that you can’t handle it?”
You’re kind of all over the place right now.
. You made four distinct critical mistakes here, lets go over them shall we?
ReilaOda wrote:Yes, going "Oh don't be scared you're over reacting" is insidious, it's belittling if done incorrectly and your forceful tone comes across patronizing and hostile. So yes. I stand by that. A gentle "you'll be alright, the outside world will sort itself out. Lets go help it along." IS far more supportive for some people.
ReilaOda wrote:"It's going to be OK." End that sentence there, Fear is in of itself subjective. I would say the fear is legitimate but that doesn't mean it is to everyone. Thus we say "It'll be OK" or the like.
ReilaOda wrote:Wraith wrote:"And you're going to acomplish that by-"
This sentence is faulty in two ways, firstly we never tell them they can't handle it, they probably can. We're just a support strut. Second they're within their right as humans to be afraid, we never said they SHOULD we just said it was a legit fear that we understood.
ReilaOda wrote:Four. Shall I keep going?
ReilaOda wrote:
So now that I've debunked your main arrows,
ReilaOda wrote:
lets be frank here.
Wraith wrote:Oh for the love of melo drama…ReilaOda wrote:You keep putting words in my mouth, OK no more Miss Nice Rei Rei, time to tear your argument apart word by word. You finally have mama dragons attention. Revel in it. Lets start with your first assumption.
Oh goody. Just imagine my excitement. I “have mama dragons attention.”
Did…did that sound scarier in your head than it did when you typed it? FFS, even if I had wanted your attention, - and I didn’t- even you hadn’t just proved my point about the absurdity of people’s “you’re not worth my time” postsWraith wrote:ReilaOda wrote: the thread being locked down is stating this isn't the thread, to be having this debate on.
Then stop debating. Problem solved. If you don’t want to see what people are discussing, stop looking at it. If you don’t want to debate, stop debating. You have the power and the agency to control how you interact with this thread, if at all.
Use it.Wraith wrote:ReilaOda wrote: You want to get on discord, skype, google hangouts, and have this talk one on one. Lets go, I'm not afraid to be challenged.
Oh FFS, this isn’t a second grade playground. I’m not here to “challenge you.” I came to share my thoughts on an issue. You know, once upon a time, adults had conversations about issues facing the world, and they didn’t need to agree with each other to have such conversations. But they were still just conversations. Not fights, not debates, no one is “challenging” you.Wraith wrote:ReilaOda wrote: It's not that we can't take you on, it's that we don't feel it a valuable investment.
...If you don’t’ feel it’s a valuable investment? Then why are you still here? I’ll never understand why people do this. They make this big showing of telling me how not worth their time they are, and how I need to just stop arguing. Listen closely: if you think I’m not worth your precious time, or you don’t want to argue, then just stop talking to me. Don’t respond. Believe it or not, I’m not a troll. I’m not hear to haunt you. I have never followed someone from one thread to another, or gone on their social media pages to “challenge” them or demand they come back. I make a post in a thread. If no one says anything about it, that’s the end of it. If you engage and respond to me, I’m going to respond back. It takes two, man. You can TALK all you want me not being worth your time, but it rings pretty hollow when you continue to SPEND your time talking to me anyway.ReilaOda wrote:I'm no longer spending time on your shenanigans, is what I'm saying. This post on, you aren't worth the time and energy spent arguing with someone convinced that he's right when he's misinterpreting what's happening and has been told a number of times what it's purpose is.
This is the last you're getting from me. Go ahead, try and goad. It wont work.Wraith wrote:ReilaOda wrote:
I'm no longer spending time on your shenanigans, is what I'm saying.
Yea…that’s what you’re saying.
That’s what you’re still saying.
And in doing so, you’ve illustrated my point, beautifully. You said I wasn’t worth your time in your last comment. And I responded by saying “ok, cool, I’m not WORTH your time so stop SPENDING your time on responding to me.”
And yet, here you are. Spending even MORE of your time to just to make ABSOLUTELY SURE that I know just HOW very unworthy of your time I am.
Action speaks louder than words, bro.Wraith wrote:ReilaOda wrote: This is the last reply you're getting from me, as I said, in what I thought was a clear exit. You aren't, worth, my time.
Yea, see, it WOULD have been a clear exit.
But then you came back.
The whole “be the bigger man and make a grand exist speech about how I’m below you and you’re taking the high road and leaving” thing?
It only works once, and then only if you actually leave. The moment you come back?
Total waste of breath.
Seriously, like 20 minutes that lasted. Way to “take the high road with your valuable time, mama dragon.”
Even ignoring all that, at this point, you’re going to tear my argument apart word by word? That’s cute, mama d. Bring it on.ReilaOda wrote:Wraith wrote:So “It will be OK” is supportive, but “don’t be afraid” is “insidious?” Dafuq? WTF is the difference? What,
“it’s going to be OK, but you should still TOTALLY be afraid?”
“We got this, but rest assured, you’re totally correct in thinking that you can’t handle it?”
You’re kind of all over the place right now.
. You made four distinct critical mistakes here, lets go over them shall we?
Oh, let’s.ReilaOda wrote:Yes, going "Oh don't be scared you're over reacting" is insidious, it's belittling if done incorrectly and your forceful tone comes across patronizing and hostile. So yes. I stand by that. A gentle "you'll be alright, the outside world will sort itself out. Lets go help it along." IS far more supportive for some people.
1. What you actually said was not “saying ‘Oh don't be scared you're over reacting’ is insidious.” What you said was “Telling afraid people, to calm down” is insidious. And not that this sounds all THAT much better, but THAT sounded incredibly stupid.
2. Now you are putting words in my mouth. You realize there’s a difference between calling someone a pussy for being worried, and telling them “I get that you’re scared, but trust me, you’re tougher than you think. You can handle this,” right? Because that is what I’m saying.ReilaOda wrote:"It's going to be OK." End that sentence there, Fear is in of itself subjective. I would say the fear is legitimate but that doesn't mean it is to everyone. Thus we say "It'll be OK" or the like.
If it’s going to be OK, then there’s no reason to be afraid, is there? Seriously, “don’t be afraid” is like “calm someone who’s freaking out down 101.”ReilaOda wrote:Wraith wrote:"And you're going to acomplish that by-"
This sentence is faulty in two ways, firstly we never tell them they can't handle it, they probably can. We're just a support strut. Second they're within their right as humans to be afraid, we never said they SHOULD we just said it was a legit fear that we understood.
So they probably CAN handle it; but it’s the worst thing in the world to tell them so? To let them know just how strong they truly are?ReilaOda wrote:Four. Shall I keep going?
Well, you’ve done a pretty crappy job so far, “mama dragon” but why not?ReilaOda wrote:
So now that I've debunked your main arrows,
Oh good lord, that’s what passes for debunking where you’re from? All you did was make yourself look more ridiculous!ReilaOda wrote:
lets be frank here.
As opposed to how incredibly subtle I was before?
Also, what the hell kind of name is Frank for a dragon mother?
Honestly…
Deedles wrote:No, I did not, but there is a difference between hearing and listening, and to me you seem to of been doing the former.