Origin of the Borg

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The Pious Flea
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Origin of the Borg

Postby The Pious Flea » 29 Nov 2007, 18:14

It seems others have had the same idea I did:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=anMOQ3vTy9k

The 'queen' idea is stupid. But the basic idea, that the Borg were created in the fusion of the V'ger probe and humanity, makes perfect sense. Humanity is therefore indirectly responsible for the assimilation of more than a quarter of the galaxy.

Discuss.
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Postby Wraith » 29 Nov 2007, 20:26

Welcome to half a decade ago. This theory has been thought of, confirmed, debunked, re-confirmed, retold, rehashed, altered, debunked again and then given its own late night talk show before anyone realized that a theory is not charismatic enough to host a show. I remember people talking about this when Voyager was till on.
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Postby The Happy Friar » 29 Nov 2007, 20:48

according to wikipedia, the idea came from the un-official sequel to "generations" by william shatner.

EDIT: wikipedia also says that "Gene Roddenberry intended the "planet of living machines" that V'ger encountered on its journey to be, in fact, the Borg homeworld.
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Postby Nitro » 30 Nov 2007, 07:24

Image
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Postby DP » 30 Nov 2007, 23:13

Whether meant in earnest or with tongue in cheek, well played Nitro.
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Postby Rhynome » 01 Dec 2007, 08:49

I've never really thought about it, but I just like to think that they're an entirely different development. Basically a civilisation that took more and more to technology, or a faction, or some such, and then the Borg happened, but a development that is so fundamental that really it doesn't need to be explained. Like when they come across another vessel and it has a computer, you just... accept that shit, or warp drive, accept it; same with Borg, they're a race/thing that came about one way or another... just accept it; I just think the first Borg were just from a civilisation or what not.

Sorta original series-ish, when there was just stuff out there, however peculiar, and it didn't always relate back to some Federation technological development probably to do with tachyons.
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Postby The Hitman » 01 Dec 2007, 12:09

There's definitely a sci-fi phenomenon based around trying to tie all your work, no matter how disparate, together around a single concept. I'm going to call it 'Dying Asmiov Syndrome.'
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Postby The Pious Flea » 01 Dec 2007, 13:36

The Hitman wrote:There's definitely a sci-fi phenomenon based around trying to tie all your work, no matter how disparate, together around a single concept. I'm going to call it 'Dying Asmiov Syndrome.'


Except that the Borg - the fusion of organic and mechanical life - fits perfectly with the end theme of Star Trek I - the union of organic and mechanical life.

There are also no references to the Borg before that time period in Star Trek canon.
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Postby The Hitman » 01 Dec 2007, 13:48

I'm sorry, I saw the word 'canon' and I couldn't bring myself to read any more of your post.
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Postby The Pious Flea » 01 Dec 2007, 15:26

The Hitman wrote:I'm sorry, I saw the word 'canon' and I couldn't bring myself to read any more of your post.


There isn't anything of my post after that word.
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Postby Wraith » 01 Dec 2007, 15:36

The Pious Flea wrote:
The Hitman wrote:There's definitely a sci-fi phenomenon based around trying to tie all your work, no matter how disparate, together around a single concept. I'm going to call it 'Dying Asmiov Syndrome.'


Except that the Borg - the fusion of organic and mechanical life - fits perfectly with the end theme of Star Trek I - the union of organic and mechanical life.

There are also no references to the Borg before that time period in Star Trek canon.


Yes, there are. There was an episode of Voyager where they encountered a race of aliens that had been in stasis for centuries, and THEY knew about the borg, although they said there were nowhere near as sophisticated. Then there's Guinan (sp?) telling Picard that they are thousands of years old. There's also at least reference to them being around in the 1400's.
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Postby The Pious Flea » 01 Dec 2007, 15:38

There are a number of problems with that line of argumentation:

Wraith wrote:Yes, there are. There was an episode of Voyager

First of all, you mentioned Voyager, which clearly never happened.

There's also at least reference to them being around in the 1400's.

Time travel.
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Postby Wraith » 01 Dec 2007, 15:45

The Pious Flea wrote:There are a number of problems with that line of argumentation:

Wraith wrote:Yes, there are. There was an episode of Voyager

First of all, you mentioned Voyager, which clearly never happened.

There's also at least reference to them being around in the 1400's.

Time travel.


Voyager was vastly over-rated (this is the geekiest conversation I've had in months, and I'm just geeking it up further). Also, you posted before I could finish thinking of examples and edit my post. There are TNG episodes that say they are much older, as well.
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Postby The Pious Flea » 01 Dec 2007, 15:55

Wraith wrote:There are TNG episodes that say they are much older, as well.


Which?
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Postby Android » 01 Dec 2007, 17:23

Voyager never Happened/was over-rated? f-that ridiculousness! Also, it seems a helluva lot more logical that the Borg evolved entirely separate from Humans. Would it not make sense that a culture that was divided by the difference between their peoples (ie racism, nationalism) might try to use technology to bring eachother together? In that line of thinking it is entirely possible that they evolved from the need to collaborate and integrate.

Second the youtube video made my mind hurt. Anyone who says a blackhole can take you somewhere is in denial. Second - a planet of living robots? no thanks.

Edit: I agree with the next post.
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Postby Mr.Michael » 01 Dec 2007, 17:49

The Pious Flea wrote:There are a number of problems with that line of argumentation:

Wraith wrote:Yes, there are. There was an episode of Voyager

First of all, you mentioned Voyager, which clearly never happened.

There's also at least reference to them being around in the 1400's.

Time travel.


What are you talking about? 'Voyager Never Happened' Haha, Voyager was the best Star Trek that has come to pass. It is only a shame that it is off the air now.
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Postby Wraith » 01 Dec 2007, 22:47

The Pious Flea wrote:
Wraith wrote:There are TNG episodes that say they are much older, as well.


Which?


I think it was Q-Who. Guinan told Picard they were thousands of years old.
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Postby Citin » 02 Dec 2007, 00:58

There's also the episode of Enterprise that involved the early Borg. I know I'm gonna get geek slapped to hell for even mentioning Enterprise but the Borg were there, frozen in Antarctica or some shit like that
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Postby AmazingPjotrMan » 02 Dec 2007, 08:39

Citin wrote:There's also the episode of Enterprise that involved the early Borg. I know I'm gonna get geek slapped to hell for even mentioning Enterprise but the Borg were there, frozen in Antarctica or some shit like that


They were left from "First Contact" Yes, I thinkt that was it.
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Postby Master Gunner » 02 Dec 2007, 13:04

Speaking of "First Contact", they mentioned in the movie that the Borg existed in that time frame, but just in the Delta Quadrant (probably a call-back to Q-who).
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Postby The Pious Flea » 02 Dec 2007, 13:13

Master Gunner wrote:Speaking of "First Contact"
Never happened.
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Postby Wraith » 02 Dec 2007, 17:51

Citin wrote:There's also the episode of Enterprise that involved the early Borg. I know I'm gonna get geek slapped to hell for even mentioning Enterprise but the Borg were there, frozen in Antarctica or some shit like that


First of all, yes. Yes you should be slapped to hell.

Secondly, those Borg don't count, as they were survivors from the Start Trek: First Contact time travel incident.
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Postby The Pious Flea » 02 Dec 2007, 18:08

I prefer the explanation that the machine civilization that found the Voyager probe had existed for thousands of years, but only began a campaign of organic assimilation after the V'ger incident.
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Postby Wraith » 02 Dec 2007, 18:57

You can prefer whatever you want, but it definitely contradicts cannon.
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Postby The Pious Flea » 02 Dec 2007, 19:04

Star Trek canon is so screwed at the present time that it's best to simply abandon it.
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