Laughter With Words Below (A Question Of Humor)

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King Kool
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Laughter With Words Below (A Question Of Humor)

Postby King Kool » 19 Jan 2009, 18:05

Now, this might be a little long, but bear with me.

For whatever strange reason, I watch almost all TV with the captions on. I have perfectly fine hearing, and I don't tend to watch TV while listening to something else; I just somehow prefer the captions. The same goes for DVDs and the like. The only exceptions is when the captions trail way behind what the people are saying, like in live shows and news broadcasts.

My love for the closed caption led me to make subtitle tracks for just about everything I've commited to a DVD (except for plays I've recorded for friends; that would just take too long). I even made subtitles for the bloopers, something which I can't believe I took the time to do.

Now, I forget which LRRcast it was in, but I remember someone in one of them (probably Graham) say that they hated watching comedies with captions because you can read the line before you hear it. Now I can respect that, but somehow that never seems to detract from the comedies I watch, near as I can tell.

Now, I'm working on something I don't want to announce specifically just yet, just in case something horrible happens and it never comes to pass. But let's say for the sake of argument, I was making a machinima based on a game that does contain subtitles (I think default being "on" as well). To write the machinima, I would just edit out the original subtitles and write in my own in FCP to make something that works with the footage, kinda like Dead Man's Hand. (If I had sense, I woulda turned off the subtitles when I recorded it in the first place, but whatever).

Now, I'm recording dialogue with people who can imitate the characters somewhat, and I guess I could remove the subtitles once I have all the voices, but I don't know if I really want to. I think I prefer the way the product looks with them. It makes it seem more like this game has somehow gone wildly off-track, instead of trying to be an autonomous piece of art. Also, the subtitles will let anyone with hearing problems watch (which is probably nobody in my audience, but who knows? It's the Internet.)

What does the Internet at large think? Will the subtitles make it less funny somehow? Should I keep them for authenticity? Should I get a job already?
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Postby Hakaryu » 19 Jan 2009, 18:13

Personally I always enjoy subtitles no matter what I'm watching. Often times because it helps me to pick up points that one often misses as people talk.
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Postby Master Gunner » 19 Jan 2009, 18:27

It takes me all of a second to tune them out, so it wouldn't make any difference to me, so long as they're not obtrusive.

And yes, you should get a job.
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Postby korri » 19 Jan 2009, 19:19

I find it slightly annoying because then I don't watch what is going on on the show
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Postby Tim » 19 Jan 2009, 20:32

korri wrote:I find it slightly annoying because then I don't watch what is going on on the show

This.

When they're on, I can't help but read them. And I agree that they telegraph things too much. It detracts from the actors' delivery of the lines, IMO.

It's not such a big deal that it would prevent me from watching something, though.
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Postby masamune » 19 Jan 2009, 21:28

multi-task? i never miss a beat with subtitles. i guess i watch mostly foreign film, though, so i've had years of practise.
i think this has potential. keep us posted. i for one love my subtitles and would not find them obtrusive.
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Postby Evil Jim » 19 Jan 2009, 21:50

Having watched as much anime as I have I'm comfortable with subtitles, but with English features, unless the audio is such that I actually need to read to understand what's going on I leave them off by default. As stated above it does spoil the joke for me if I can see the punchline coming before it's spoken. I can still ignore them, but if they're speaking English & I understand English there's usually no need & then they run the risk of obstructing something on screen.

Timing is very important. I have to be able to read the lines comfortably. If I feel the need to rush the dialog won't sink in as well & spoil the scene. In King Kool's Green Noon edit, Dead Man's Hand all of the intertitles seemed to be up for about the same amount of time, regardless of how much there was to read. Thus, I found myself having to rewind & pause in order to catch everything. For silent movies, a quick reader should be able to read each intertitle twice all the way through.

Another thing about subtitles. It really bugs me if they aren't word-for-word what the character is saying. Too often I've been reading along & find that the subtitles merely summarize what the character is saying rather than give us their actual dialog. This ruins the characterization of the person & detracts from the story.

Something I do for fun once in a while is watch a favourite movie with an entirely different language audio track. I'll turn subtitles on for this, & also if I'm listening to a commentary track, for ease of following both that & the movie.
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Postby King Kool » 19 Jan 2009, 22:15

Evil Jim wrote:In King Kool's Green Noon edit, Dead Man's Hand all of the intertitles seemed to be up for about the same amount of time, regardless of how much there was to read. Thus, I found myself having to rewind & pause in order to catch everything. For silent movies, a quick reader should be able to read each intertitle twice all the way through.

Another thing about subtitles. It really bugs me if they aren't word-for-word what the character is saying. Too often I've been reading along & find that the subtitles merely summarize what the character is saying rather than give us their actual dialog. This ruins the characterization of the person & detracts from the story.


I assure you neither of these will be the case this time.
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Postby Evil Jim » 19 Jan 2009, 22:19

Dead Man's Hand, by the way, was hilarious. Commendable work.
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Postby DmitriW » 19 Jan 2009, 22:35

Evil Jim wrote:Dead Man's Hand, by the way, was hilarious. Commendable work.


Haven't seen it...anybody want to throw a link at me?
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Postby Evil Jim » 19 Jan 2009, 22:39

DmitriW wrote:Haven't seen it...anybody want to throw a link at me?


Dead Man's Hand: Green Noon edit.
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Postby DmitriW » 19 Jan 2009, 22:48

Evil Jim wrote:
DmitriW wrote:Haven't seen it...anybody want to throw a link at me?


Dead Man's Hand: Green Noon edit.


Dead Man's Hand IS awesome!
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Postby Master Gunner » 20 Jan 2009, 13:26

That it is.
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Postby Kneuronak » 20 Jan 2009, 13:33

I do the same thing! I watch most television/films/etc with subtitles on, just to catch the little background touches that don't usually come across...
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Postby Telaril » 20 Jan 2009, 13:40

I'm another one of those people who can't help reading the subtitles beforehand and spoiling the joke. I find it... if not impossible, at least extremely difficult to tune out subtitles.
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Postby Jillers » 20 Jan 2009, 14:24

I usually put subtitles on something I've seen already, otherwise the subtitles tend to spoil the joke.
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Postby tamaness » 20 Jan 2009, 14:27

I watch a lot of things with subtitles on because I cannot hear clearly. I can hear, and I can understand when people speak, but sometimes I can't hear clearly.
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Postby empath » 20 Jan 2009, 18:53

Bacon.





Sorry, had to throw tak's Ultimate Rebuttle out there. :)


I've an interesting position; I, myself, don't particularly mind subtitles, and do have them on from time to time. As long as they don't obscure something happening visually, I'm fine.

My wife, however, is like Tim and Jillers and the like, and objects to subtitles or captions. (I can tell you, I have sometimes had some fun disabling the same in the odd DVD we'll rent that happens to default to them)

As such, I'd still say go for it - it sounds like they'll be done well and likely will enhance the work, rather than the usual detraction people experience and thus expect.



Also, I'm turning out like madAlric - starting to have auditory problems that amplification will not help, soon I will need subtitles or captioning. :(
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Postby gryffinp » 21 Jan 2009, 08:08

I just want to point out that if subtitles will enhance the verisimilitude toward the original game, then that might be a serious plus. I might suggest showing it with and without subtitles to a test audience, or at least a small part of it.

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