Is the US repeating history and what should they do instead?

[Hakaryu]

It seems like the US gov is repeating history on how its tackling the recession. They seem to be using tactics that were used in the 30's (before the new deal)and proved to be very very ineffective.

One example would be pumping a fuckton of cash into the market. Way to court inflation boyo. The more money we pump in, the less its gonna be worth soon enough.


So what do you all think Obama should be doing instead to fix this shit?

[JesterJ.]

It seems like the US gov is repeating history on how its tackling the recession. They seem to be using tactics that were used in the 30's and proved to be very very ineffective.

Sorry, what's telling you the New Deal failed?

[Hakaryu]

It seems like the US gov is repeating history on how its tackling the recession. They seem to be using tactics that were used in the 30's and proved to be very very ineffective.

Sorry, what's telling you the New Deal failed?

I mean before the New Deal came about. I'm talking about the tactics they used to try to fix things quick like we are now.

[Unclever title]

So what do you all think Obama should be doing instead to fix this shit?

Well for one, NOT spend a crazy stupid amount of money, but I'm pretty sure that was implied.

What I think is needed is basically jobs. I'm also kinda thinking that maybe there's nothing that needs to be done but simply to wait it out. It's not going to be a fun time while it lasts, that's very true, but chances are the U.S. will bounce back from this without the need for massive Government spending.

In the mean time, don't use credit cards, and don't be afraid to spend money, just make sure it's money you have.

Economic common sense really. (on a person to person level that is)

[Lord Chrusher]

In a depression deflation becomes much more of a worry than inflation. If prices are lower production will drop which will lower wages in turn lower demand making the problem worse.

Inflation has the advantage of reducing the effective size of the debt the increase due to the bail out which is a much greater concern than inflation.

What made the Great depression so bad was the collapse of world trade partially due to protectionism and a massive failures in the banking system. The worse things the Obama administration could do is put up trade barriers and allow banks, especially retail banks, to fail. Due to deposit insurance the scale and number of bank failures seen in the great depression is unlikely to seen this time around.

At this point we have to wait and see how things pan out. Economics is an notoriously imprecise science and it can be especially difficult to find the best way out of the forest when you can trees in every direction especially when looking through politically tinted glasses.

[Sable]

While there are nuggets of points to be made here, I believe that it is fundamentally disingenuous to compare the economic system and model of the 1930s with the economic model of the 21st century. They are different on so, so many levels that "historic" changes and manipulations are almost certainly not going to have identical effects.

I am not an economist and at the moment the only thing I am prepared to do is wait and see what happens. Making muppet-arms about The Crisis just wastes energy that could be put to much more awesome uses, like Tesla coils.

[JesterJ.]

While there are nuggets of points to be made here, I believe that it is fundamentally disingenuous to compare the economic system and model of the 1930s with the economic model of the 21st century. They are different on so, so many levels that "historic" changes and manipulations are almost certainly not going to have identical effects.

I agree. Also, instead of having TWO problems, we just have one.
In the 30s, the Farmers coincidentally killed their topsoil at the exact same time as the Great Depression, so there was an agrarian crisis along with an urban crisis. FDR dealt with it well, but in our current scenario, we don't need to worry about that: Most of the country is "urbanized" now, and the recession we're in is affecting everyone in the same way, or at least has the same root problem.

What I'm saying is a solution to this mess will likely be much simpler than The Great Depression, because we only have one set of problems instead of 2.


(I, too, am not an Economist, and I'm simply using what I've learned in U.S. History. But it sounds pretty much correct to me.)

[Lord Chrusher]

We understand Tesla coils a lot better than the US economy for one.

[Dutch guy]

What the US should do is stop screaming their heads off about an economic crisis, yes, it's there. Let it be there. Don't start screaming things are going bad, as that causes things to go bad. (Here in Europe, the economic crisis was exacerbated by stock traders panicking and selling loads of stock in even healthy banks, now the stock market is very bad as traders are all very pessimistic about the future. If they don't buy stock, the stock is worth less. If the stock is worth less, the indexes go down, if the indexes go down, traders don't buy stock. Thats basically the circle we've been stuck in since the start of this.

And yeah, pretty much, don't spend a fuck ton of non existent money when that is basically what started this whole mess.

[Evil Jim]

I'm glad I'm not back in high school taking economics class right now.

[Kevco]

The thing about the Roosevelt era was that, although it did give jobs to us Americans, there was little to nothing being done to create actual 'wealth'. That 'wealth' coming from exporting to other countries. While government funding did help to provide many of the different public service projects (Tennessee Valley Authority, Works Progress Authority, etc) there was nothing done to help our overall economy.

So, with that in being said, the New Deal didn't fail....but it really wasn't succeeding as intended.

What DID get us out of the depression was the start of WWII. Britain and France were our biggest customers of weapons during that time, which helped to jump start the economy. People had real jobs, with real time and resources being consumed.

So, as a US citizen who is takes a strong interest in his country's history, I suggest a few of the following:
1. The media really does need to shut the hell up. They're doing nothing but fanning the fire.
2. Socialized health care will only make things worse. In my town, the local hospital system already laid off hundreds of people in preparation of what's to come. Their operation was definitely fine; they had enough for sure. Point: Shut up about the health care.
3. Let the auto companies go bankrupt. There ARE other companies out there, that I AM SURE would love to buy what's left and start again. The reason Congress isn't letting them fail is because of the UAW (United Automoblie Workers) union, which is a major supporter of the Democratic Party, which currently controls congress.

Hope that makes sense, and counts as a legitimate argument. I kinda had to think hard about putting that together.

[Cake]

I didn't vote for the guy in charge.

[Kag]

I fail to see how that is even remotely relevant.

edit: Also, politics threads are traditionally bad news. I'd give it a week before the whole thing explodes and we're all banned.

[Hakaryu]

I didn't vote for the guy in charge.

Unfortunantly I did, now i'm regretting it.

[Kdz]

I didn't vote for the guy in charge.

I don't see what that has to do with a thread about opinions on what the US should be doing economically now; the election was a while back, but whatever.

After hearing the recent address, at the very least I can understand the reasoning behind what they're doing. I have absolutely no idea if what they're doing will work, though. Stock market's been a rally for about two weeks, though, so that's promising at least. And, yes, I do know the stock market isn't exactly a fantastic indicator of the rest of the economy. But if businesses have more money, they might spend more money, and it kinda goes from there.

I do agree that if the god damn media wasn't gloom and doom all the fucking time, most people probably wouldn't have even noticed the economy dipping, unless they lost their jobs. The sooner they stop, the sooner people stop stuffing money under the mattress like retards(It's like they forgot banks were insured or something).

[edit]I think it's a little early to be expressing regret about your presidential choice, you don't know, it might all work out. Most of you admit you aren't economics experts, and neither am I. So it's not beyond reason this all goes well, and we all move on. Not to mention it's been, what, 61 days? That was a quick change of heart when really all that's happened is a bailout and a tax break.

[Hakaryu]

I do agree that if the god damn media wasn't gloom and doom all the fucking time, most people probably wouldn't have even noticed the economy dipping, unless they lost their jobs. The sooner they stop, the sooner people stop stuffing money under the mattress like retards(It's like they forgot banks were insured or something).

Doom and gloom is what makes the media company their money though. So that won't stop anytime soon.

[Kdz]

That is true; perhaps if we could just make the populace smarter somehow...

[Hakaryu]

Get people to pay attention in school. Get them to find other news sources besides FOX or NBC or CNN.

[TehXmasGhost]

So, as a US citizen who is takes a strong interest in his country's history, I suggest a few of the following:
1. The media really does need to shut the hell up. They're doing nothing but fanning the fire.
2. Socialized health care will only make things worse. In my town, the local hospital system already laid off hundreds of people in preparation of what's to come. Their operation was definitely fine; they had enough for sure. Point: Shut up about the health care.
3. Let the auto companies go bankrupt. There ARE other companies out there, that I AM SURE would love to buy what's left and start again. The reason Congress isn't letting them fail is because of the UAW (United Automoblie Workers) union, which is a major supporter of the Democratic Party, which currently controls congress.

Hope that makes sense, and counts as a legitimate argument. I kinda had to think hard about putting that together.

Seems like a legitimate argument to me.

1. CNN only lets people report about what they allow to report, that's why Glenn Beck left (Yes, he's on Fox News, but don't say Fox is biased, because so is EVERY OTHER news station out there).
2. Health care? Didn't people finally stop shouting about that?
3. If Congress was balanced like it was supposed to be, then I'm sure we wouldn't be in this spot that we're in. Also, Obama's retarded, how did he even win?

A few points of my own, I would like to say that Obama has yet to turn in and give evidence of a birth certificate, so I don't consider him President, or any of his cabinet members members of the Presidential Cabinet, or any of the Supreme Court judges that he has nominated a Court judge. Basically I believe our government is leaderless and powerless. To bad nobody else believes that, or maybe we wouldn't be in such a fucking HORRIBLE place.

Edit- getting people to pay attention in school won't change anything, the government says what goes in schools.

[Kag]

That's a joke, right? I mean, it has to be. There's just no way.

[Kdz]

I have a hard time imagining people questioning Obama's birth, but hey, they can do that. Whatever floats your boat. I just figure they'd have this kind of thing in order before they swore him in. But maybe I have too much faith in the government. They stay out of my shit, though, so I don't have too much bad to say.

[Sable]

That's a joke, right? I mean, it has to be. There's just no way.

This.

Also, a question about the economic choices of the current Administration has nothing to do with whether you voted for him, care, or believe he is a seven-foot-tall lizard man from the planet Draco in the seventh dimension.


Stop it.

[JesterJ.]

I just want to say that I'm really looking forward to this thread. PLEASE DON'T MAKE IT GET LOCKED. PLAY NICE, PEOPLE.


Xmas, were you serious or kidding? I'd like to know more about

Basically I believe our government is leaderless and powerless. To bad nobody else believes that, or maybe we wouldn't be in such a fucking HORRIBLE place.

How are Obama's birth certificate and his potential for leadership connected? How would this possibly change the position the country is in?

Also, why is "retarded"?



Once again, not jumping down your throat, I just want to know more about your reasoning, since it baffles me. I live in one of the liberal heartlands of America, so I don't get a lot of contact with people on "the other side."

[Kdz]

How are Obama's birth certificate and his potential for leadership connected? How would this possibly change the position the country is in?

At the very least, were he not born in this country, he couldn't be President. So that'd be different.

[Kag]

I think technically speaking, he still would be president now, unless he were legally removed from office, but he wouldn't have gotten this far in the first place if he weren't a natural citizen.