Getting a bit more "personal"

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Zivlok
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Postby Zivlok » 05 Apr 2009, 22:31

Well, are you going to ask it? :arrow:
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zfubarz
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Postby zfubarz » 05 Apr 2009, 22:42

Well didn't wanna start if nobody wanted to ask.

What happens if you wait all that time, you love each other, the first time is so cool because well you finally had sex and you managed to wait. Then you realize quickly that you're completely incompatible sexually? She loves it, you don't have any desire for it? r maybe you've repressed something so long it turns into some desire she can't comprehend? Maybe you've got a big package and can't even get in her without causing horrendous pain? (that one is awkward.... no not saying I have big junk just been with a tiny girl.) maybe she's disgusted by the sight of your penis? Hell, maybe, just maybe if you're really straight edge and you don't even masturbate, you get in there, and it turns out that you're gay and only ever found her pleasant to look at but have no sexual feelings towards her?

I can go on of course, there's a billion possibilities. Most of my examples are extreme but there are subtler ones, hell more important ones.

But what then? Faith plays a big part obviously but it can't account for everything.
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Postby Interruptor Jones » 05 Apr 2009, 22:43

Alja-Markir wrote:
Tim wrote:I think there's something really valuable about saving your virginity (your ACTUAL virginity) for your spouse. Don't you think it shows that person how much you value them if you can say they are the only one?

Maybe I attach much more emotional significance to it than some others.

This is something that has always confused me. Why do people find it preferable to be "the only one"? Why are we, as western cultures, so possessive of love? Why is it romantic to think that someone loves only one person, and not others?

Love isn't a limited commodity. If you have two children, you don't love one more or less than the other. You love them equally. Why, then, do most consider it impossible or unreasonable to have multiple romantic loves? It's a different form of love, I admit, but it seems strange to me that we limit it.

Logically, I can understand that throughout history there has been an important societal need for single partner relationships. Knowing whose child is whose is a major part of that, especially in societies with hereditary rule, social castes, or other factors of division. There's also simply the matter of difficulty. It's a hard thing to make a single pairing work often enough, adding in more layers of complexity just increased that difficulty. Then there's human jealousy, which is a whole dark and morbid mess of selfish impulses causing strife.


THIS. I see no reason why love, physical or otherwise, is only possible between one person at a time, or for that matter, one person, ever. I think it's possible to have more than one committed partnership without somehow having to split your affection as though it were a fixed quantity- as opposed to something that can be cultivated and developed and shared. Yeah, it'd be exponentially more complicated, and certainly not the right choice for everybody, but that doesn't make it a horrible idea, just a tricky one. Once again, though, probably not a topic for this thread...

On topic - I didn't really date until I was in my last year of high school, and my first time as related earlier didn't occur until six months or so later. It's impossible to try and get a timeline for these kinds of things, as I know people my age that are still virgins, and people way younger that aren't. So if your age is getting to you, don't sweat it too much.
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Zivlok
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Postby Zivlok » 05 Apr 2009, 22:54

zfubarz wrote:Well didn't wanna start if nobody wanted to ask.

What happens if you wait all that time, you love each other, the first time is so cool because well you finally had sex and you managed to wait. Then you realize quickly that you're completely incompatible sexually? She loves it, you don't have any desire for it? r maybe you've repressed something so long it turns into some desire she can't comprehend? Maybe you've got a big package and can't even get in her without causing horrendous pain? (that one is awkward.... no not saying I have big junk just been with a tiny girl.) maybe she's disgusted by the sight of your penis? Hell, maybe, just maybe if you're really straight edge and you don't even masturbate, you get in there, and it turns out that you're gay and only ever found her pleasant to look at but have no sexual feelings towards her?

I can go on of course, there's a billion possibilities. Most of my examples are extreme but there are subtler ones, hell more important ones.

But what then? Faith plays a big part obviously but it can't account for everything.


Well, I would find it pretty said if sexual incompatibility came between a relationship. I mean, you start you list of "what ifs" by saying that the two people love each other, if they actually do, then they can probably work around problems in the bed just like they'll have to work around problems in every other aspect of life.

Also, being gay isn't solely dependent upon not having an overt fondness for vaginas. Really, it just comes down to who you're attracted to, and if that happens to be predominately people of your own gender, then you're gay.

Lastly, if you've got too much junk in the trunk, I recommend seeking help from these professionals.
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zfubarz
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Postby zfubarz » 05 Apr 2009, 23:06

lol I think you used the term junk in the trunk a little awkwardly there.

Indeed some people can work around those things, but not everyone can. Ever see Forgetting Sarah Marshall? Remember the odd religious couple and he hated it? Sure it's funny. It comes from truth though. Studies also show that couples with good sex lives have a much more healthy and happy relationship, not to mention healthy and happy lives, locking yourself into something that could cut out such a large chunk of the human experience seems pretty frivolous. If you're certain religions you really are locking yourself in too unless you want to lose all your friends and family as well.

I don't really see the reasoning in it, and was just curious.
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Postby Matt » 05 Apr 2009, 23:08

Zivlok wrote:Well, I would find it pretty said if sexual incompatibility came between a relationship.


Seems to me that sexual incompatibility would be a major relationship-killer, honestly, and not really surprisingly so. We aren't talking about a difference of opinion on whether to watch action flicks or romance movies here, we're talking about one of your most primal physical drives and physiological need fulfilment, and if she can only get off when you're doing it standing on your heads, and you have a pathological fear of being upside down, that's going to cause relationship porblems right there.

You're both going to be very unhappy - and compromise isn't going to work.

-m
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zfubarz
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Postby zfubarz » 05 Apr 2009, 23:17

Both laying on your sides just aint gonna cut it there.
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Postby Graham » 05 Apr 2009, 23:25

I started growing a full beard in August and am enjoying it, but I'm of the mind that it should be kept trim. I'm not a fan of giant bushy beards on dudes, but I don't think dudes should really care what I think.

I did have what was technically a "goatee" but was more accurately "chin-pubes" for a time during Season 1 of LRR and, in retrospect, I would recommend against that.

Enjoy University.



If losing your virginity is a "thing" for you, I recommend you lose it soon so it stops being something you worry over. It's really not that big of a deal, and after you lose it, you'll realize that you were worrying for nothing.
But you'll never truly believe that until you lose it.
Also, you gain +10 to confidence with ladies.

I don't think it's something that needs to be saved for someone special, and there are definitely different kinds of sex, as has already been touched (hah!) on in this thread.

RE: You Specific Situation - I say, go for it.
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Postby Cake » 06 Apr 2009, 00:07

I think Tim said very eloquently what I didn't have the words for. Also, my decision for abstinence is based in my religion.
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Postby Telaril » 06 Apr 2009, 00:18

Zivlok wrote:Well, I would find it pretty said if sexual incompatibility came between a relationship. I mean, you start you list of "what ifs" by saying that the two people love each other, if they actually do, then they can probably work around problems in the bed just like they'll have to work around problems in every other aspect of life.


I've had a few strange romantic experiences in the last few years, but these two strike me as particularly illustrative:

Subject one:

The first was a guy who claimed to be absolutely crazy about me in every sense... wrote me love letters, gave me gifts, was perfectly courteous all the time. He was a virgin who had never made it past kissing before. At first I didn't know if I was attracted to him, but eventually I started to have feelings and agreed to give it a whirl. At first he was enthusiastic and romantic as he'd been before, but when I tried to get closer to him physically he became cold. I didn't know what was wrong, so I asked him if he wasn't attracted to me. He said no, he was just not ready for sex at the time, but still wanted to try to make things work. I backed off, and we had some more ok dates, going out to eat, chatting, and all that. Still, it felt like a letdown, as I'd been single for a while and really wanted a relationship. All the companionship and caring in the world doesn't make a relationship if the physical intimacy isn't there. It wasn't that I was trying to force intimacy on someone who wasn't ready: a few weeks after we ended it he became sexually involved with several other people.

Contrast it with subject two:

Again, I wasn't sure if I was attracted to him at first. This guy was less sappy, less complimentary, more sarcastic. He didn't mention love in conversations with me, and we mostly just talked about our histories and a little about things we found enticing. He had much more sexual experience than I did. We also disagreed on some major political and philosophical points. We didn't share many interests. Sounds like a recipe for failure, eh? At the same time, I found his challenging and brutally honest nature interesting, and I started to become interested in him. I decided to give him a shot, since Mr. Nice Guy had been such a letdown. I was visiting him as part of a group trip, and though we were staying together we spend much of the daytime with a big group of friends. During the first day, he didn't pay a lot of attention to me, and I hung out with other people as well. Then, at the end of a long party I was standing in the kitchen talking with a few friends. He was chased in there as part of a game he was playing, and backed up against the wall where I was standing. Partially as a joke, I started giving him a backrub. I felt him relax into me and so I started playing with his hair, massaging his arms, etc. Shortly after that we went back to his place in his car, and the entire time we were touching in some small way... my hand on his shoulder, his hand on my leg.

Now, in both cases I knew the boys involved for months or years before we made a try at a relationship. We did all the traditional non-sex bonding associated with a traditional courtship. It wasn't until we tried intimacy that our compatibility (or lack thereof) was apparent.

But ask me now who I'd rather spend a huge swath of my life with... the guy who was kind and sweet but didn't understand his own sexuality and wasn't sexually compatible with me or the guy who I argue with but with whom contact just felt safe and right... I'd pick the second one every time.

I want to make this crystal clear again: the first guy claimed to be and believed he was in love with me for months before we made a try at intimacy. If we had gotten married without making that try, it wouldn't have been until our wedding night that we realized we were horribly, irreconcilably sexually incompatible... and instead of feeling confused and disappointed for a week, I would have felt confused and disappointed for the rest of my life.

I'm now grateful that we were so incompatible... if we hadn't been we might both have tried to "power through it" and been stuck at the edge of unhappiness for some time. And then I never would have met the second guy, who let me enjoy myself and feel good about myself.

If you aren't sexually compatible with someone, you might as well just be friends, even if you really love them. I have several friends of both genders who I am very mentally and emotionally connected to but not physically attracted to. I love them all, as friends. I'm not going to marry any of them.

I'm not saying here that all virgins don't understand their own sexuality, or that all "nice guys" are going to turn out to be disappointing. I'm also not saying that waiting 'til marriage never works and always ends in chaos: luckily humans are pretty basic, and many people enjoy the same kinds of intimacy or are attracted to most other people. I'm instead outlining a situation where, if we had been living in a different time or place and had married before trying intimacy, we would have been totally screwed.
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Postby zfubarz » 06 Apr 2009, 00:43

^well put
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Lyinginbedmon
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Postby Lyinginbedmon » 06 Apr 2009, 00:59

This is why I like this forum. I can post a thread asking about sex, on the Internet, and hours later I've got a bunch of intelligent, mature, responses and only one bad post (Lavos, naturally).

Any other thread and I'd be screwed in a different manner.
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Lord Chrusher
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Postby Lord Chrusher » 06 Apr 2009, 01:28

On beards: I have had worn various types of facial hair for the last seven years and learned a few things. Firstly do not start growing a beard until you have some density. Secondly facial hair needs to be kept more or less trimmed. Lastly, a full beard is the most manly form of facial hair and the only sort worth having.

On Sex: One thing not so much to keep in mind but to be aware of is that physical intimacy can drastically your relationships with not just the person you were intimate with in ways and over a longer time scale than you not would expect. Having said that go with the flow: if things seem to be going that way and you are cool with it go for it but if you are uncomfortable with the situation or you seem to forcing it back off.

You would have to be Sheldon Cooper not to get which one of the two topics I am more comfortable and more knowledgeable about.
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Postby Lyinginbedmon » 06 Apr 2009, 01:39

Just to clarify a few concerns, I'm not trying to take advantage of her. Whilst discussing sleeping arrangements in the four tents between 6 people with here the possibility came up and in some form of another we've been secretly planning it (Largely for the occasion of the other four people not finding out, because keeping the "last man unmolested" running gag would be even more hilarious to us afterwards).

She's fine with it, we're not just planning it for the sake of it or for the sheer sake of keeping that joke, and if anything occurs towards it I am simply not going to object.

Granted, we've largely planned for the event to be outdoors and away from the tents (They being a 4-man, a 3-man, and two single-man "slug" tents). Ostensibly it's going to rain tonight...
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Postby Cureless_Poison » 06 Apr 2009, 01:46

Make sure you got the "Lady Killer" perk, it's pretty useful.
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zfubarz
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Postby zfubarz » 06 Apr 2009, 01:54

Sounds like you've got it all figured out then man.

Good luck and have fun.

PS: try not to get any mosquito or black fly bites on your junk.
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Postby The Jester » 06 Apr 2009, 02:54

I'm not really sure how much I can contribute to this. It seems you've already made your decision, although I suspect that you may have done this subconciously before you posted this thead, and I would say go with that gut feeling because even if it doesn't turn out so well it'll still be a valuable learning experience.

Regarding beards I can't actually grow anything on the sections of my jaw directly below my cheeks (apparantly my father couldn't either) which leaves me with just my chin, my upper lip and my sideburns. Another problem is that, being blond, you can't actually see my facial hair at any kind of distance :P (It also doesn't seem to want to grow at the moment, which is rather annoying).

Regarding first time experiences, I've yet to have one. I'm 21 and it's not something I regret, because I'm confident that all my decisions were the right ones for who I am. As far as sex and relationships go, I'm pretty much alongside Alja and Empath so I shan't bore you by repeating their sentiments.

I would like to bring up the question of this friend's nymphomaic lable. If she is suffering from any kind of psychological disorder it would be unfair to take advantage of it, even if she says she's fine with it. It's a displacement behavior where the subject attempts to find personal meaning and a deeper emotional contact through sex; they try to validate themselves and they attempt to find love (or prove to themselves that they can feel it) by having sex. If she is suffering from nymphomania then it would be a really bad idea to take advantage of that fact.
Of course, if she isn't and merely has a higher sex drive than any other people in your group of friends then, well, it's not as much of a problem and this side of things has been covered by others.

Regarding polygamous relationships my thoughts run this way: if I am not enough to satisfy you, why are you with me?
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Postby Morgan » 06 Apr 2009, 04:19

ok, i don't want to derail this conversation, so i will try to be succinct about my thoughts on polyamory. you can get different things from different people. each person has a whole series of ways they can exist in your life and a whole series of ways you can develop a relationship with them. on top of that, there are a whole series of potential mates on the planet. add this all up and you have trillions of options. i believe there is a touch of arrogance in assuming that you'll find the right one the first time, or even at any time throughout your life. why not explore each option to the utmost? you only live once. share and share in love. it is not a limited commodity. the more you cultivate it, the more there is. simple as that. why would you want less love?
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Postby The Jester » 06 Apr 2009, 05:59

Oh, it's polyamorous is it? I wasn't sure so I guessed. Thx :)

I'm not saying you should wait untill to find "The One" before commiting to anything, in fact, it'd be pretty difficult to know whether someone was worth commiting to without developing a relationship with them... if that makes any sense. It's difficult to put down what my views on relationships are because they're very complex and I'm not sure I have the words.

All I'm saying is I wouldn't be happy physically sharing someone I cared about enough to sleep with with anyone else. I have no problem with them having deep and meaningfull mental relationships with others, in fact it'd be pretty fucked up of me to try and stop them. That said though, my view of a healthy relationship between two people includes them being each-other's best friend, so if one of them has a better freind in someone else the relationship basically isn't as strong as it could be. That's not to say that I have anything against other people haveing polyamorous relationships, just that it wouldn't be ok for me.

I'm also not saying you should hold off on letting a prospective partner get emotionally closer to you in favour of waiting for some percieved "perfect partner", because I'm well aware that the one you're holding off could just as easily become your perfect partner if you let them closer. People change over time.

I don't know if what I just said makes any sense or is just confusing, as I said, I don't think I really have the words to describe the full extent of my views on love and relationships. Maybe I've just over-thought all of this becasue I haven't experienced it for myself, which'd be rather annoying.
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Postby Metcarfre » 06 Apr 2009, 07:07

Beards; full beards only please. Give yourself a reason to start. When I started mine, I was climbing a mountain, and it was handy for keeping my face warm. Afterwards, it was time for hockey playoffs, and growing your beard is what you do. Let it grow for about a month before trimming so it's nice and full. Invest in a decent trimmer.

My other views I have already stated.
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Postby Dutch guy » 06 Apr 2009, 07:10

I was gonna say, just wait and see what happens. Don't force things. If it happens, Good on ya and High-five. If it doesn't, no hard feelings. But I see you are actually already planning it with her.

As I'm still a virgin myself I can't really offer any advice. But I would say, if you do it outdoors, stay away from sand or water (Terrible lubrication) and find a nice soft clean surface. (Also, check for ant-hills and stuff before you start :lol: )

I myself have a bit of a different sexual preference. I'm a bit of a bondage fetishist :? . Not sure at the moment if I'm a Dom or a Sub. Because I haven't found anyone I trust enough or who trusts me enough for it I've never engaged in any activities with someone else. I enjoy tying myself up, but I can't really tell if it's the act of tying myself up or the being tied up part that I enjoy.
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Alja-Markir
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Postby Alja-Markir » 06 Apr 2009, 09:29

Dutch guy wrote:As I'm still a virgin myself I can't really offer any advice. But I would say, if you do it outdoors, stay away from sand or water (Terrible lubrication) and find a nice soft clean surface. (Also, check for ant-hills and stuff before you start :lol: )

Most of this is spot on, but I would argue there are certain types of water and sand that will work, just not all. Certainly avoid fresh water, that stuff is full of living things that you do not getting into tender areas. And your average inland sand in much of the world is kinda gritty and soily, that's the stuff to avoid.

An oceanic beach, depending entirely on the beach, has a decent chance of being a great place. You need soft and fine sand, and relatively warm and clear sea water. Of course, that's really more of a tropical kind of beach. Northern beaches tend to be rockier, muddier, colder, and less fun. Now, some rock beaches can work really well if the rocks are the right type and have eroded properly. Really, though, there's so much beach variation depending on so many factors, unless I knew which beach someone was hoping to go to, I couldn't really tell them how they'd fare.

Dutch guy wrote:I myself have a bit of a different sexual preference. I'm a bit of a bondage fetishist :? . Not sure at the moment if I'm a Dom or a Sub. Because I haven't found anyone I trust enough or who trusts me enough for it I've never engaged in any activities with someone else. I enjoy tying myself up, but I can't really tell if it's the act of tying myself up or the being tied up part that I enjoy.

I know a girl who thinks she'd like being tied up, but she's had no real experience so far except a friend of hers who she let pin her and hold her down while using a feather on her. That definately aroused her, but I think most of that is a trust thing for her.

If tying yourself up is doing anything for you, there could be a few possibilities. You could be mentally projecting and thus by tying yourself up you allow yourself to better fantasize about someone else tying you up. Or you could just have a thing for lack of control. Although it's really hard to bind yourself properly and still be able to get out, so you do always have some measure of control.

The action alone doesn't tell enough, there's more to it only you know about.

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Postby Fraszoid » 06 Apr 2009, 11:01

My first time was interesting and rather fast progressing. I went to a friends house for new years, just me and her with the plan to have sex (planning is important, you are much less likely to forget something important and will be better prepared mentally). That night we did a lot of things, but only actually had sex twice, before midnight, and again in the morning. She seemed to enjoy herself but for me, alcohol and medication that causes 'Sexual Side Effects' kind of dulled my sensations a bit.

Overall, I prefer the foreplay and making out, much less risk and I find easier and more fun. Plus the cuddling after wards is nice, along with having someone next to you when you sleep.

My 2 cents, take it as you will.
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Postby Interruptor Jones » 06 Apr 2009, 11:02

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Postby zqfmbg » 06 Apr 2009, 11:50

Is it a bad thing that I'm only reading this thread because I need something to do while waiting for cH to go up?

Oh, and while I'm a fan of the "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, go nuts" doctrine, I have to admit a strong distaste for this thing they call polyamory. But that's mostly because I got to watch a pretty complicated web of relationships (including marriage and kids) crash and burn in huge flames. But hey, maybe it's also because I'm insanely boring. :D

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