Justify My Piracy

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JesterJ.
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Justify My Piracy

Postby JesterJ. » 13 Aug 2009, 23:43

There's an issue I've been struggling with lately, and honestly I can't figure it out.

I am absolutely, 100% opposed to theft of physical property. I cannot stand robbers and thieves, and I think they're some of the scum of the earth - taking something other people have worked hard for and earned seems absolutely, fundamentally wrong to me. I see the logic in this statement and I feel these emotions.

However, I still pirate games, music, or movies often instead of purchasing them. Now, I'm not some kind of a chronic Pirate that has to download everything, all the time. But if there's the option of downloading a PC Game and being able to enjoy it that way instead of buying it, there is a good chance I'll take that route instead of purchasing it.

I can't figure out why I'm okay with Piracy but not with physical theft. The only conclusion I've come up with is that in Piracy, I'm taking bits of data instead of a physical thing (like an Xbox), so I'm not stopping somebody else from enjoying said item. However, I know this in the end hurts the company - they make less sales, they're less inclined to make a game like it in the future, and the person who sweat and worked so hard over this project for so long gets jack shit out of it.

Where do I come off doing this? Am I a hypocrite (something else I despise)? Somewhere in my mind, the logic stands that Piracy here and there is alright, even though the evidence proves otherwise. What the hell is going on?
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Lorithad
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby Lorithad » 14 Aug 2009, 00:15

My guess is that you're falling on the victim less crime aspect of it. Or the things that you'd pirate are things that you wouldn't have actually thought good enough to buy in the first place.
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby masamune » 14 Aug 2009, 00:48

if music, movies and games weren't so insanely overpriced, you probably wouldn't bother to pirate.
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby Evil Jim » 14 Aug 2009, 00:50

I have notified the FBI of your current location & they will be there shortly to apprehend you. Do not resist, it will only harm your case in trial (if you are fortunate enough to have one).
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Theremin
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby Theremin » 14 Aug 2009, 02:10

Evil Jim wrote:I have notified the FBI of your current location & they will be there shortly to apprehend you. Do not resist, it will only harm your case in trial (if you are fortunate enough to have one).

Its Jim's Justice!
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Dutch guy
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby Dutch guy » 14 Aug 2009, 02:19

I don't know about you, but for me I pirate things I wouldn't EVER buy in a shop. In my opinion, it's the games distributors that are the pirates.(Not the studios, they probably get a pittance for their work.)

The gaming industry is WAY too slow in taking up the downloading and pirating world of the internet. Not so long ago I finally saw a good step in the right direction, a company offering JUST license codes for games, nothing else. Price? A few Euros each, for games that cost much more if you where to buy them in a shop as a physical CD. So maybe the gaming industry will one day get it, and start using the distribution possibilities of the interwebs to their full potential.

The music industry I do not feel sorry for at all. They are stuck in an old and totally outdated system, and refusing to see the light of day. I am very sorry this happens at the cost of beginning artists, but CD's are just no longer the best way to sell music. Yet most, if not all, music production labels consider MP3's as only a way of piracy, and not a good way to sell music.

Most label execs are still convinced that they lose millions and millions of sales due to piracy of CD's and a lot of them think that every pirated song is a lost sale. Like that's ever gonna happen. I pirate some music because I can either not find it anywhere else, or because I simply don't like it enough to buy a CD.
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GreigKM
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby GreigKM » 14 Aug 2009, 03:08

I've pirated a lot of music and games in the past, but recently I'm buying my games through Steam, really nice to get legit stuff in a download.
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby CygnusX1 » 14 Aug 2009, 04:13

when you say your just "taking bits" i think you underplay what software really is... although its not a physical object, its more of ideas and intellectual property
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goat
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby goat » 14 Aug 2009, 05:30

masamune wrote:if music, movies and games weren't so insanely overpriced, you probably wouldn't bother to pirate.


Dutch guy wrote:I don't know about you, but for me I pirate things I wouldn't EVER buy in a shop. In my opinion, it's the games distributors that are the pirates.(Not the studios, they probably get a pittance for their work.)

The gaming industry is WAY too slow in taking up the downloading and pirating world of the internet. Not so long ago I finally saw a good step in the right direction, a company offering JUST license codes for games, nothing else. Price? A few Euros each, for games that cost much more if you where to buy them in a shop as a physical CD. So maybe the gaming industry will one day get it, and start using the distribution possibilities of the interwebs to their full potential.

The music industry I do not feel sorry for at all. They are stuck in an old and totally outdated system, and refusing to see the light of day. I am very sorry this happens at the cost of beginning artists, but CD's are just no longer the best way to sell music. Yet most, if not all, music production labels consider MP3's as only a way of piracy, and not a good way to sell music.

Most label execs are still convinced that they lose millions and millions of sales due to piracy of CD's and a lot of them think that every pirated song is a lost sale. Like that's ever gonna happen. I pirate some music because I can either not find it anywhere else, or because I simply don't like it enough to buy a CD.


QFT

That being said, whenever Steam has a bundle deal I'll usually be lining up to buy whatever it is that they're selling.
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby ChiUnit4evr » 14 Aug 2009, 05:47

Generally speaking, if I download something, its because I don't want to pay money for it in the first place. This applies mostly to movies. If I want to see a movie that I know I'll only get a one time kick out of, I'll download it. If its a movie I really love and want to watch again and again, I'll buy the DVD.

As for music, I agree with Dutch Guy. Direct to drive downloads are where things are going, but because the execs sitting in their offices are too worried about this kind of drastic change in their distribution scheme, they're frightened of what it means for their business. Radiohead proved that point with their release of In Rainbows.
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby theDreamer » 14 Aug 2009, 06:21

I've been feeling these exact same things.

I have justified it on one level: how am I going to know I'll like it until I play it myself? You can't rent things for free, and if you don't play or hear it, how will you know if its good to you?

Radios don't help, because I listen to a lot of music that doesn't go ON the radio. Demos often aren't big enough, show you what is really going on, or even exist for the game you want. So, sometimes, I see it as a pay it forward type thing.

Other times, I download it because the distributors are being assholes about something. For example, Batman: Arkham Asylum, has 8 bonus levels where you get to play as the joker. These can only be played if you own a PS3 and get that copy of the game. 360 users get nothing, and PC users get physx, which is great, if my card could handle it, but it can't. Also the PC version comes out weeks later.
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby Joshua » 14 Aug 2009, 06:26

Is easy to get away with and convenient and free, that is why you do it. That is why I do it. There may be several excuses but in the end those are the reasons.
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby theDreamer » 14 Aug 2009, 06:28

Joshua wrote:Is easy to get away with and convenient and free, that is why you do it. That is why I do it. There may be several excuses but in the end those are the reasons.



Did I forget to mention that? I think I was trying to be...fairer to myself. Really, I'm lazy, and the odds of getting caught are so slim, I don't have any fear.

Doesn't mean when the net's down I don't freak out.
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby gcninja » 14 Aug 2009, 06:50

well if u think abiut it your not stealing but rather makung ur own copy if it for urself thats how i tink of it. Sorry for misspells on the iphone
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby Lord Chrusher » 14 Aug 2009, 07:55

I have stopped bootlegging games (Steam + some disposable income = legally acquired games) but I still download a bit of music and all my television.
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby ThrashJazzAssassin » 14 Aug 2009, 08:17

The way I justify my own illegal downloading is quite simple: I wouldn't have spent any more money on music, DVDs or games if I hadn't been downloading stuff (I might actually have spent less), and if I like an album or a film I will, eventually, get round to buying it. So no one loses out except for those people whose products I might have bought if I hadn't copied them first and decided I didn't like them. This may seem like dubious reasoning, but I really do buy the stuff I like: I have been known to download a TV series, burn it to DVD, start watching it and actually stop watching to go and buy it on Amazon because it's so brilliant.

I don't actually illegally download that much any more, but I used to quite a bit, until I realised the real problem with it:

:!: TOO MUCH STUFF :!:

Even though I've just finished at uni and don't have huge amounts of money to spend, the amount of music/games/DVDs/books that I can afford is actually not that much less than the amount of new stuff that I can fully appreciate at any one time. I'd like to be able to buy more books (because I read ridiculously fast and spend a lot of time reading) and maybe more DVDs (because I don't re-watch films or TV series as often as I re-read books), but most of the music I've ever downloaded has just sat on my hard drive without being listened to properly for a looooong time, because at any one time I'm concentrating on just a few new albums and my old favourites.

I'm glad that the ability to listen to so much new music has allowed me to discover a lot of great bands and artists, and to play a wide variety of music on my student radio show, but I've discovered that it's hard to fully enjoy a new album when you have sixteen more new ones waiting to be listened to immediately after, and it's hard to decide which albums are worth listening to and which to get rid of. I also spoiled some bands for myself by getting all their albums in one go, and not leaving anything to look forward to. So now I think a lot more about whether I really want something right now before I go looking for it.

One of my friends is really bad about it, though: he downloads every album or DVD that he thinks might be interesting, then forgets about most of them and buys yet more hard drive space instead of actually making use of and/or deleting them. I know for a fact that he's got loads of stuff on his computer that he really hates. Just... arrghh... why? :?

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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby Metcarfre » 14 Aug 2009, 09:22

I am going to try to be as succinct as possible here;

Yes, you are being a hypocrite.

Yes, bootlegging products - be them games, music, movies, etc. - is stealing.

You can make as many excuses as you want but that's what it boils down to.

A common complaint, for example, is that "music companies are lax and sluggish in adopting new digital distribution methods, etc." Fine - you don't like how they run their business? Don't give them your money. But don't steal from them either.

Here's an analogy; if anyone follows my Twitter, they'll know I've had some bad experiences with Boston Pizza of late (a restaurant chain). So bad, in fact, that I won't eat there again. I won't give them my business. But do I go and steal food from them? No. That is stealing, regardless of how my experience was.

Am I blameless in this matter? No. I've bootlegged music, TV, and movies before. I have decided to stop. Not wanting to pay for cable, I will either a) rent shows I like, b) watch them online (eg. Lost is shown on CTV.ca), or c) not watch them. Similarly, I basically don't get much in the way of new music anymore, so no problem there.

Video games I will always pay for. I can usually only afford a few games a year, so I make sure they're ones I'll enjoy, generally by purchasing them after they've been out for a bit so I don't get burned.

As Paul once said on a podcast, no matter what you think, "people gotta eat".
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby Sieg Reyu » 14 Aug 2009, 09:48

Firstly of all, I do not shop online. I just don't never got around to setting up a debate card. I'm lazy.

I torrent for a few reasons.
One: I owned or possessed it at one point in time and lost it. This applies for roms as well.
2) I hear a song or cd I like and download their discography to see if there is anything of theirs I would be interesting in buying.
C. I can't find it anywhere/ no longer being distributed. EX: Song of the South.
Fourth; I wish to have an electronic copy of something I already own. EX: Some D&D books.
Lastly, stuff that's free or doesn't really matter if I download it. Red Vs. Blue being another example.

I very rarely dl something because I refuse to support or haven't supported the content owners.
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby Unclever title » 14 Aug 2009, 10:04

Video games I buy. The major exception to this is downloading ROMs (typically SNES) and ROMhacks, I particularly like ROMhacks because, though they are glitchy, some of them are pretty darn creative.

Music and videos I tend to download either legally (if its free) or illegally depending on the source. I look for specific songs using google so I don't really care to keep track of that. It's usually only one song at a time upon rehearing something that I particularly like. I've gone so far as to record the audio from a youtube video if I couldn't find the music available for download though the resulting quality is pretty poor.

And of course if I find the website suspicious I simply won't download the file.

Interestingly enough more often than not when I download music it's usually particular parts of video game soundtracks.

Videos are usually small things because I don't like wasting space on my hard drive with entire seasons of TV show, I prefer to stream those. I DO use official sites if their video players don't utterly suck. I sometimes use Hulu at home cause my internet connection there is much better than at my school. (FIOS for the win)

I fully recognize this as bootlegging (not piracy, reference Paul in a podcast somewhere) and also don't anticipate legal action upon my person. Partially because I don't download mainstream music (just musical preference) and I do this rarely to begin with.

PC games I generally pay for or otherwise don't keep on my computer for long. I actually haven't illegally downloaded a PC game in about three or four years, and don't plan on starting that up again.
I have done the occasional download of a patch of some sort to remove the CD requirement from some games. One it's just plain a nuisance even if I own the disk, Two I basically only do that when borrowing a game from my brother (outside the house), it's just easier than passing it back and forth and sharing a game the legit way.

All in all, it's illegal. I don't try to justify it but it doesn't bother me that much. Though I do from time to time think of the issue morally, and I don't justify then either which has caused me once or twice to delete my ROMs. The music has never bothered me though.
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby Spatial Coffee » 14 Aug 2009, 11:04

metcarfre wrote:Here's an analogy; if anyone follows my Twitter, they'll know I've had some bad experiences with Boston Pizza of late (a restaurant chain). So bad, in fact, that I won't eat there again. I won't give them my business. But do I go and steal food from them? No. That is stealing, regardless of how my experience was.


It's not stealing. It's rather somehow copying their pizzas instead of stealing them. It's more like walking into the author's office and starting to take copies out of his work without permission.

metcarfre wrote:As Paul once said on a podcast, no matter what you think, "people gotta eat".


That's true, and that's one reason I don't download illegally. I want to support my favorite artists and ensure they can continue their work in future. I'd just rather my money went to the 'right address', instead of falling into the pockets of the record labels.
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby wedrinkritalin » 14 Aug 2009, 11:14

I think that games cost a bit too much and while people gotta eat they shouldn't be paid anymore or any less than your average worker, I think that huge companies like EA are to blame as they simply encourage piracy by speaking out against it instead of trying to slyly combat it. I love the Pirate Bay, and though i'm an ignorant anarchist type who wouldn't vote i'd happily vote for the Pirate Party in the UK as piracy is the first victim of Net Neutrality
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby Matt » 14 Aug 2009, 12:35

Interestingly, after the spore debacle, EA took one of the most progressive attitudes towards piracy I've seen, ever. When they released the sims 3, they knew it was going to be pirated like crazy. So instead of filling it with drm, they made pirating it easy. The trick was that if you had a legit copy and validated the serial online, you gained access to a whole new city, items, places, things to do. The game was functional without, but they incentivized purchasing, and took the stance that the pirated version was efectively a demo. You could pirate it, in fact, they wanted you to, so you could see how much more there was to look forward to when you bought it.

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Sieg Reyu
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby Sieg Reyu » 14 Aug 2009, 12:40

Now that is a good idea.
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby iamafish » 14 Aug 2009, 13:05

smart move EA

but how would you do that with music?
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Re: Justify My Piracy

Postby Metcarfre » 14 Aug 2009, 13:16

iTunes lets you listen to samples prior to purchase. Conceivably, they could allow you to listen to the album one time prior to purchase.
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