Serious Thread Discourse: Alcohol

[tak197]

I am starting this thread in order to begin a serious discussion on college and alcohol. This is NOT the place for random "OMG totally got trashed" stories, but rather a discussion of the following questions:

- Drink to enjoy vs drink for effect?
- Types of beverages for different effect?
- Dry campuses: are they worth it?
- Responsible drinking in college: an oxymoron?

and so on. Remember guys, don't be a dick, please keep it civil.

[Cap'n Jonny]

Finally, a thread which I can talk in with some authority: booze!

Firstly, I drink to enjoy; also for the effects, but less so. I like the social easing that comes with everyone having a few drinks and on occasion it is fun to get pretty smashed, although these occasions aren't too often. A like to get a bit tipsy, but not so much the full blown drunk.
I find beer gives you a heavy, sleepy drunk, which is great for sitting in a pub chatting for a few hours, but not so much for parties. Spirits are good for a more active buzz, although different ones - different effects. Gin is a very destructive, immobilising drunk; whiskey lowers inhibitions and makes you act differently without appearing too wasted; vodka is sneaky and gets you more drunk than you realise at the time; rum makes you a pirate (in my mind). Wine's a good all-rounder, although too much cheap red is a sure-fire recipe for throwing up.
Dry campuses are stupid ideas. People are going to drink if they want to and colleges that try to stop them just end up pissing everyone off. And while I don't think that resposible drinking in college is impossible, I think it probably is in a dry campus, as it encourages excess when they do get hold of the stuff.

[epocalypse]

- Drink to enjoy vs drink for effect?

Neither, really. I don't like drinking, if I do, I guess it'll be an effect, as I have used it as a sedative. I barely ever drink, despite my family being a wine family for generations back in Portugal, and virtually everyone I know drinks quite a bit. It's not for me. The biggest thing for me though is that I can't stand beer, because I can't stand the taste of hops. On the infrequent occasions I do drink, it tends to be wine or anything 40 proof or higher.

Ironically, and I use it in the dramatic sense, I think my dislike of drinking is due in part to being really "good" at it. I'm good at chugging, I'm good at downing shots, chasers or not, I don't black out, and I rarely have any ill effects the following day. In fact, I was so "good" at drinking, that my older brother would always use me as a sideshow, because I could take with a straight face all the shots his friends would pussy out on. That is most likely the exact reason I hate drinking. So, on my own, in about 4 years of college i guess I've had about 4 drinks a year, most of which all at one time during the summer at my brother's annual 4 of July party. Now, I'm pretty much done drinking altogether. It's just not for me.

Coincidentially, I also hate coffee, but that is neither here nor there.

[Cybren]

I do not drink, but

- Types of beverages for different effect?

I'm pretty sure it's been scientifically proven all variety of alcohol has the same effect.

[Arius]

When I drank, it was purely for effect.

I went to the bar, drank myself happy, and sobered up at Denny's with either some friends or some people I didn't know.

I think everyone should have the right to drink if they feel like it. And, like Graham said in the podcast, it isn't going to make them do anything they aren't willing to do in the first place. It just takes away their worries over what everyone else thinks.

[korri]

Every now and then I drink a little at parties or if I go out with my friends so long as I'm not driving because frankly, thats just dumb.

As for different types of alcohol, the only difference I have experienced is that I get a wicked hangover whenever I drink beer. Recently, I had one beer, ONE BEER and I woke up with a terrible headache. Other times I drank harder alcohol and was a bit more tipsy and didn't have any kind of hangover.

[Gordon Fearman]

I went to the bar, drank myself happy, and sobered up at Denny's with either some friends or some people I didn't know.

Man, just walking into a Denny's is enough to make anyone sober.

And suicidal.

[Metcarfre]

I enjoy drinking, but generally not to excess. I like almost all types, but usually I restrict myself to good beer, wine, and scotch.

Dry campuses just seems to extend the whole "rebel against authority" undercurrent of teenage booze abuse. When you're old enough to responsibly enjoy alcohol, you lose the need to use it excessively and can instead enjoy it properly.

The only advice I'd have is to not mix up which drinks you're having; stick to one thing.

[Master Gunner]

I started to drink as a social thing. Even though drinking doesn't actually reduce my social inhibitions/awkwardness, it gives me that external rationalization I need to convince myself to do...pretty much anything. Doesn't take me long to start enjoying the taste of most drinks either. However I'm always careful about how much I drink so I don't go overboard, especially early on. I stretch it over the night, and I often do quick math/logic problems in my head (quick, not easy, I generally do long division, derivatives, and integrals) to keep track of how I'm doing, and scale it back if I'm getting too far ahead of myself. Far from perfect, but it helps keep me (relatively) under control and able to get myself home at the end of the night.

As for the issue of dry campus, teetotaling, and the like, it's family story time! This is from a few generations back, when one branch of my family was in Arizona. One of my distant cousins owned a bar, and needed a new bartender, so he offered it to his teetotaling cousin, figuring he could at least trust the guy around all the alcohol. That particular cousin ended up the family drunk (and this is a family with a very strong Scottish heritage, and everybody loves to drink), because being surrounded by beer all the time, he eventually took a sip. That sip quickly escalated, and having no prior experience with alcohol (he was around middle-age at that point), he had no idea when or how to stop and reign himself in.

You need to at least give it a try when you're young, with people you can trust, so you can learn your limits and keep it under control. A couple drinks isn't going to kill you, but it prevents alcohol from becoming the "forbidden temptation" hanging over your head for the rest of your life. Sometimes I fear my brother will end up the same way as that distant cousin, because he's so wrapped up in his own arrogance and self-righteousness that he's never had a drink in his life thus far, and has absolutely no self control.

Dry campuses don't work for the same reason "dry" high schools don't work, except in university they can legally go down to the liquor store now. Repressing such things or ignoring they exist rarely end well. Do you think Salem would have happened if not for the puritanical oppression letting so much build up until it burst in a witch-hunting frenzy, just so people could let their feelings (and demagogue instilled fears)?

[Gordon Fearman]

The moral of Gunner's story: never drink.

Ever.

[Lord Chrusher]

Usually I drink to enjoy but sometimes drink for effect especially in the past.

Different beverages do have different effects. Remember there is more in booze than just ethanol and alcohol. Being drunk off tequila is much different than being drunk off beer.

[Metcarfre]

Ethanol = alcohol...?

[Lord Chrusher]

Whoops

What I meant to say was ethanol and water.

[epocalypse]

interestingly, despite my own lack of drinking and dislike of it, I am not a teetotaler. in fact, I think the drinking age should be younger in the us so all these idiots stop killing themselves the second they get to college.

[Genghis Ares]

I don't drink, and I got my Bachelor's online, so...

[Hakaryu]

Generally I drink for enjoyment, I love white russians and rum and coke but other times its fun to get smashed, which is when I get my hands on some jagermeister.

[MarkVI]

I drink for enjoyment, and almost always in the company of friends. I do not ever intend to drink for the effect, though I do admit that if I'm ever at an event full of mostly people I don't know it may seem easier to get over possible anxiety with a drink to sip on.

Dry campuses are pretty retarded in my opinion. Colleges should be smart enough to realize that if people want to drink, they will find a way around the rules.

The only real irresponsible drinking in college as far as I know primarily takes place at frat parties and related rage-esque parties. And usually they drink shitty alcohol anyway. Thanks very much, but unless I'm playing beer pong or trying to pinch pennies, I'm not interested in drinking Bud Light or Natural Ice. Most of the friends I've ever had in college have been responsible drinkers.

As for good drinks, the northwest is well-known for excellent micro brews, so I have come to appreciate a high quality beer.

Standard mixed drinks I prefer are pretty ordinary choices: White Russian, Gin & Tonic, but I'm open to try just about anything reasonable that doesn't use low grade liquor. Sometimes, it's nice to have a straight whiskey just neat or on the rocks. It's very dry and warms you up inside.

As a funny side story, a while back me and few friends came up with the crazy idea to form a list of the shittiest kind of alcohol we knew and have a tasting party based on it. The worst we decided to be Budweiser with Clamato juice. It made Old English Malt liquor seem tolerable. Also horrible is Monarch brand Tequila.

[Gordon Fearman]

...and rubbing alcohol.

Anyway, I think you're all missing at least some of the point of a dry campus. Sure, it may not help stop college students from drinking, but it does show everyone that they have that intention. Colleges have dry campuses to show that they don't condone drinking, which may influence which way parents choose.

[ChoTomoko]

- Drink to enjoy vs drink for effect?

As for drinking to enjoy/for effect, I personally fall right in between the two. Unfortunately, I'm alergic to alcohol, so I can't drink all that much without spending the rest of the week itching like crazy. I tend to lean a bit more toward the drink to bond with friends. But that's just me...

[MarkVI]

I still feel that the US makes too big a deal about alcohol. I think every other country has a lower drinking age and sometimes no drinking age at all. Most likely, people elsewhere generally learn to be responsible about alcohol at a younger age. The psychology surrounding alcohol seems to be so different here, and the "forbidden fruit" aspect of it all could be a huge factor in that.

[Master Gunner]

Parents shouldn't be deciding what University their kids are going to anyways (well, perhaps unless they're paying for the whole thing, but the guy who's actually going should still have the biggest say). Besides, despite what common practice....seemingly everywhere...is, you can not condone something without outright banning it. I believe it's St. Mary's in Nova Scotia that recently passed rules saying that student's can't where school-branded clothing at bars off campus (not that there's any bar on campus), along with stricter rules around partying on campus and where you can drink (in your dorm room, and that's about it). Good luck enforcing most of the rules they passed, but it's an effort to cut down on drinking (or at least, the school's association with it), while still allowing people to do what they want to.

[DmitriW]

When I drink, I do so more for enjoyment of the drink than as an attempt to get drunk.

I've been drunk exactly once in my life. It was interesting, and I wouldn't mind having it happen again, but I don't actively seek it out. I usually have just enough to feel the buzz, then stop--unless I'm drinking Guiness or Hoegarden, in which case I have one or two, then stop. Beer bite and I are not good friends.

[tak197]

On the topic of dry campuses, dry dorms, and all that, what I saw in my college's case (dry dorm option, 2 underagers in the room = dry, 21+ is okay) is that for the most part, the people it is geared towards are more or less either the types that find drinking to not be an issue or have few other choices. In either case, it's an decision that you make after the fact.

[Cap'n Jonny]

Plus none of you yanks can drink worth a damn anyway.
FACT

Those of you not yanks may disregard the preceeding comments

[Alja-Markir]

I just don't understand alcohol.

I do understand it from a historiological point of view. It used to be the only thing around to drink. Naturally, that ingrained it into culture. Nowadays, though, it's a relic left over from the days before proper water filtration. It only persists in usage out of tradition and as a recreational drug.

And to be honest, I don't see the point of chemically altering one's neurological state. In fact, when chemicals do have that sort of affect on me, my instincts for self preservation flare up and I sort of panic a tad. It flat out disturbs me to feel my body entering a foreign state because of something I've ingested. I react as if I've been poisoned - and little wonder, alcohol is a poison, even if it is just a mild one.

I just don't understand why people rely on chemicals to alter their moods and level of inhibitions when it's much more rational, safe, and controllable to do so via will.

I've been told by some of my friends that they like the feeling of not being in any sort of self control. However, I feel it's one thing to loosen up a tad and be less self controlled, and another thing entirely to not be capable of being in control. In my mind, an uninhibited person is no better than an animal - they act on base instincts, out of emotion and urges rather than intellect or reason. And on a very strong level I abhor that notion.

~Alja~