Inception (Home Release Necro'd edition)

[epocalypse]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-samuels/eminceptionem-as-deceptio_b_659619.html

You guys should check this article. I don't agree with it fully, but it's saying some cool stuff.

[Metcarfre]

Yeah, I couldn't even finish that.

[Telaril]

The most interesting thing I've seen is the theory that the ending of inception is supposed to draw attention to the following: The entire film is a commentary on making movies. Nothing in movies is real. Nothing in movies is any "more real" than any other thing. Nothing is more real than a dream. In a movie there is no "real" reality. So it doesn't matter if the top falls because IT IS ONLY A MOVIE, GUYS.

That's sufficiently meta that I sort of like it, though it changes the emotional impact. When it's pointed out to me that a story is only a story and nothing in it really happened... even if I knew that already... it takes away some of the emotional impact. For me the point of a story is losing yourself in it so thoroughly that you believe it.

Though it could be argued that that's what Cobb is doing - losing himself in a movie, not reminding himself constantly that IT'S ONLY A MOVIE, GUYS.

[epocalypse]

I've talked about the film about films reading before, and I really like it, but then, if you go with that, I think it's more interesting to read the ending as a challenge: you finish this, find your own resolution. I actually think I'm going to write an essay on my angle of the movie pretty soon, and post it somewhere... I think I've found my angle.

[octopimpostor]

ive seen the movie twice now and because its such a good movie, i forgot to keep an eye out for those subtle hints. I got drawn into the movie again. SPOILERSomeone mentioned that the top never wabbles except the end, which is not true, when he was deminstrating the spinning top, it wabbled before becomming perfectly straight again. And something i noticed is that when he is in the basement area with the drug dude, he sees mal and washes his face with water. he tries to spin the top but cant. i think he is in a dream from here on.

[Nevrmore]

No one seems to remember that Nolan directed Memento, which is also excellent.

Hey buddy, Memento is my favorite movie. Inception was good but it doesn't even come close to Memento.

[Arius]

Don't believe his lies.

---

Incidently, I saw Memento with Rifftrax. The movie was so good, I completely blanked out the Rifftrax in my mind.

[Evil Jim]

What lies? Nevermore basically just said Memento was awesome.

Memento blew my mind. I saw it at a midnite matinee one Friday night after work during its theatrical release. The brief blurb in the newspaper said it was a psychological thriller about a man trying to catch his wife's killer. I knew nothing more than that when I went in & was so glad I had no other preconceptions because it was so good. That's why I refused to look at anything other than Inception's theatrical trailer & saw it as soon as I could.

Tho' now that you mention it, I might have to check out Memento's Rifftrax now.

[Telaril]

Don't believe his lies.

I see what you did there.

[Murakami]

Spoiler:

In reaction to the 'the whole thing is a dream and an allagory for filmmaking': the whóle thing doesn't have to be a dream for this interpretation to work.
http://chud.com/articles/articles/24477 ... Page1.html <- This article, posted earlier, positions Fisher as the audience, going on a journey. If we stick to that interpretation, isn't the journey finished when he reaches his climax (the sitting on the waterbank, talking about him wanting to be his own man). I think we can position the filmmaking-theory as taking place in the three dreamlevels after the plane.
Of course, this doesn't explain the supposedly 'reality' parts of the movie - where Cobb gets stuck between two buildings and Saito vere convieniently shows up.
Bút, if we take Fisher as the audience, Fisher only really has a role within the three levels after the plane-reality. Before and afther there isn't an audience, so there isn't a film-allegory. We could see before and after the 'inception' as the real world in which the director of the movie is discovered and given an assingment (Saito instructing Cobb to do Inception), the movie is produced (creating the levels and casting the actor, etc.).
I just don't know what to do with all that happens after the plane-trip. If we keep to Cobb as the director.. hmm..

[Murakami]

Or, more precisely put, if 'dream' means 'film', then only the levels after they go under on the plane are the dream and film (in the analogy), the plane is reality and Cobb really lands, and really meets his kids again. We need a more broad interpretation for the whole movie than just 'everything is a dream and in that a metaphor for film'.

[octopimpostor]

Spoiler!!!!!!!!After more thought, I have trouble believing that the ending is adream. In a dream, you can't remember how you got there. He can however remember how he got in the plane. The thing that messes with me are the kids.

[epocalypse]

Don't believe his lies.

I see what you did there.

...sdrawkcab depyt neeb evah dluohs ti hgouhT
...maerd a nI
.maerd a nihtiW

[iamafish]

wow. awesome film.

SPOILERS I don't buy the whole 'it was all a dream' explanation. Just because a film is an allegory for something, doesn't mean that it is a dream any more than all films are a 'dream', likewise, just because a lot of what happens is to do with Cobb as a character, does not mean that he is being incepted. It's just indicative of how much the film focuses on character. That the film is about Cobb recoiling the death of his wife, does not make it a dream, it means that Nolan has the priorities of the film correct; the emphasis is the people.

That being said I am not entirely sure that the end was real or not. I'd like to think it is, but then maybe we're supposed to.

In fact I think he takes this a little far - i would like to have seen more on the ethical aspect of what they're doing. It is briefly mentioned that inception is morally dubious, but this is not really examined, nor is the fact that Cobb is simply doing the dirty work of some big corporation trying to take down another. I think ther bit where the Japanese guy says that Fisher's company will take over the world or some such weakened the film, because I think the problem of Cobb doing something that he knew was wrong in order to see his family again would have added a little extra interest and conflict.

[Evil Jim]

Don't believe his lies.

I see what you did there.

Dawwww, shit! I can't believe I missed that. It was written on the back of the photograph. Dammit, I need to see Memento again soon.

[Telaril]

wow. awesome film.

SPOILERS I don't buy the whole 'it was all a dream' explanation. Just because a film is an allegory for something, doesn't mean that it is a dream any more than all films are a 'dream', likewise, just because a lot of what happens is to do with Cobb as a character, does not mean that he is being incepted. It's just indicative of how much the film focuses on character. That the film is about Cobb recoiling the death of his wife, does not make it a dream, it means that Nolan has the priorities of the film correct; the emphasis is the people.

That being said I am not entirely sure that the end was real or not. I'd like to think it is, but then maybe we're supposed to.

In fact I think he takes this a little far - i would like to have seen more on the ethical aspect of what they're doing. It is briefly mentioned that inception is morally dubious, but this is not really examined, nor is the fact that Cobb is simply doing the dirty work of some big corporation trying to take down another. I think ther bit where the Japanese guy says that Fisher's company will take over the world or some such weakened the film, because I think the problem of Cobb doing something that he knew was wrong in order to see his family again would have added a little extra interest and conflict.

I agree, and I prefer to think that the ending is reality as well. The fact that Cobb remembers how he got there is as good a reason to believe it as any.

I'm actually a bit annoyed that they went with the "or are they... still dreaming?" ending. A friend of mine insisted that's how it would end months ago, and I hoped he was wrong. I also predicted the "someone believes things are a dream that aren't" plot point.

The problem is that there's no good way to effectively prove that he isn't dreaming, so I feel like I have to have at least one pet interpretation of the "he is still dreaming and that's why the top doesn't fall" school.
There's a boingboing post that points out an interesting musical thing that they did. I consider this possibly the MOST mind-blowing thing in the movie. I don't know if anyone would count it as spoilery.
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/07/27/in ... cal-s.html

[epocalypse]

I saw that too, totally awesome.

[iamafish]

I agree, and I prefer to think that the ending is reality as well. The fact that Cobb remembers how he got there is as good a reason to believe it as any.

I'm actually a bit annoyed that they went with the "or are they... still dreaming?" ending. A friend of mine insisted that's how it would end months ago, and I hoped he was wrong. I also predicted the "someone believes things are a dream that aren't" plot point.

The problem is that there's no good way to effectively prove that he isn't dreaming, so I feel like I have to have at least one pet interpretation of the "he is still dreaming and that's why the top doesn't fall" school.
There's a boingboing post that points out an interesting musical thing that they did. I consider this possibly the MOST mind-blowing thing in the movie. I don't know if anyone would count it as spoilery.
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/07/27/in ... cal-s.html

I've partially written a blog post about it that will go up on saturday/sunday, explaining why I think it's not a dream in more detail, and why it doesn't need to be for the whole thing to still work.

that being said, I quite liked the way they did the ending and I quite liked the fact that it ended with the possibility that he was in a dream at that point. I think it's worth noting that, even if that bit is a dream, the rest doesn't have to be

[Murakami]

Wow, that boingboing post is awesome! Very cool!

I agreethat the whole movie doesn't have to be a dream to work, as i posted earlier. Bút, I also think the ending had to be this way for the movies message to fully come across: it doesn't matter if it's a dream or not, the catharsis is real whatsoever.

[octopimpostor]

I don't agree with the "the ending doesn't matter cause he's with his kids either way" way of looking at it. I care about what happoned to the other characters. I wanna know what happoned to them. They are important to the story. If it is a dream, what happens to them?

[CommanderKeen]

Spoilers

We spend the ENTIRE movie concerned about what's real. So the kids and top argument do matter, in the movie context anyway.

It has some neat effects, namely the hotel sequence and another solid performance by Gordon-Levitt, but I can't get behind the casting of Ellen Page. I mean she's the IT under 25 actress at the moment, but every scene that went from Leo to her back to leo, just felt poorly casted. She still looks under 25, whereas the rest of the cast looks much older. So whether that's a comment on youth being able to craft better dreams because of imagination or an attempt to reach out to a younger film-goer generation, you be the judge.

I enjoyed it, but there has to be easier ways to get someone to break up their company.

[Matt]

Regarding Ellen Page: she was younger. she was supposed to be younger. DiCaprio pulled her out of a college classroom to enlist her help.

so... yeah?

-m

[Metcarfre]

Yeah, I'm with Matt (SPOILERS): I kind of got the impression that Architects burn out relatively quickly and are, in general, young. Like brilliant theoretical mathematicians, or something.

[epocalypse]

with matt with matt, Yay!

[Telaril]

I, too, am with Matt on the Ellen Page thing. Also, the scene where Joseph Gordon-Levitt kisses her is the cutest thing. It's probably the cutest thing that has ever happened in ANY Nolan movie.

Sort of related to the other thing CommanderKeen mentioned, we spend the entire movie concerned about Cobb and his kids. I think that Cobb cares more about being there for his kids than his own personal catharsis or satisfaction and I'm sure that if you could ask Cobb, he'd agree. If the kids are real at all, if they exist in any way shape or form, if any part of the movie where they are mentioned is not a dream then it is a horrible tragedy if the end IS a dream. If the kids are just a construct of the dream world, not real kids waiting for their daddy to come home, then it's ok if it's a dream at the end. In that case the catharsis is more important.

A lot of people point to Cobb abandoning the spinning top as evidence that it doesn't matter to him anymore if it's a dream. I disagree... he bothers to spin the top, he waits for it, he's just caught up in the moment. There was a time before when he didn't reach out to his kids and he doesn't want to make the same mistake again. They're MORE important now, but the Top isn't completely unimportant. I could imagine him returning to the top again, even in this world where he has what he wants.