Oops! We Did it Again!

[Elomin Sha]

Remember a certain neutrino experiment that broke the laws of physics? Well, they tried the experiment again changing a few elements and achieved the same results.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15791236

[empath]

So we don't know as much about the nature of the universe as we thought we knew. Accept that and move on; maybe something has CHANGED, maybe our initial conclusions missed (or are still missing) something, or maybe some things we've concluded to be constant fluctuate, etc.

Oh well, more work ahead of us. It's not like this revelation is going to compromise people's safety, or undermine something like building methods or medical procedures; it's not going to kill anyone (yet), so I guess it's good we've noticed this NOW, eh?

[psychopez]

I like to think there is a god in the universe that every time humans think they know something, he changes everything up.

They think the world's flat? Oops, it is, bam mutherf***ers, it's round now.

I also like to think of a god that is Samuel L. Jackson.

[theDreamer]

Please.

With something like this, unless they can replicate it a million times, it means nothing.

Science. It's arduous.

[the_lone_bard]

Well, initially i thought it was great.
Then i talked about it and heard that maybe they just miscalculated the distance.
Then the thought occurred to me that for that to happen, all the other things they shoot around would have been showing up as wrong.

But, if this is indeed proven right, then i think we all know what this will lead to.

Next stop, DALEKS!

[Drdiggit42]

When I first heard about this I assumed that the neutrinos were traveling a very small amount above the speed of light, but if the data the showed in the article is correct the neutrinos where traveling at 3.05 x 10^8 m/s which is 5,000,000 m/s faster than light. that seems pretty significant.

[JenSev]

Well, initially i thought it was great.
Then i talked about it and heard that maybe they just miscalculated the distance.

What did they miscalculate, did they forget that the neutrinos travel in a straight line, and they took the actual distance it would take to drive and didn't figure in the curvature of the earth?

[Metcarfre]

Extraordinary findings require extraordinary evidence. I wish people would remember that.

But this is an interesting development.

[empath]

Yes, because people are not allowed conjecture in a message board.

[Master Gunner]

From what I understand, this time around they had shorter neutrino pulses, to correct for any error that may have occurred from timing the generation of neutrinos. From this latest batch of experiments, they have determined that neutrino generation was not a cause for error in the first batch. Presumably, after they've run a few more batches through (remember that the "first" experiment we heard about back in September were the final results of something around 15,000 different data points), they'll move on to the next possible variable.

What did they miscalculate, did they forget that the neutrinos travel in a straight line, and they took the actual distance it would take to drive and didn't figure in the curvature of the earth?

That would have produced a difference of far more than 18 meters (how far behind light would have being when the neutrinos were detected). The argument about miscalculating the distance lies in the GPS systems used. While they should have better accuracy than 18 meters, given the nature of the experiment, it's worth double-checking.

[Keab42]

They're still using the same timing equipment, so if that caused the error last time...

[Dutch guy]

The first thing they tried was that maybe they were just measuring the wrong puls and bussed up the timing somewhere, meaning they were measuring one pulse too early. (During the first experiment neutrinos were fired in pulses very very shortly together. Making timing between stations very important. For the second experiment they stretched the pause between each pulse so they could be very sure which pulse they were measuring.

probably more experiments will follow to ensure propper calibration of the timing equipment.

[Tycherin]

Please.

With something like this, unless they can replicate it a million times, it means nothing.

Science. It's arduous.

Man, science is boring. When do we get to the part where they use a particle accelerator to make a really large explosion? I want to be there for that part. It'd be just like Transformers! Wow, that's the best idea! We should make science more like the Transformers movies!

[Highlander]

[quote="Tycherin Wow, that's the best idea! We should make science more like the Transformers movies![/quote]

Explosions, boobs and far too much focus on Shia leboef's charahter?

[Lyinginbedmon]

The distance isn't the biggest thing they could have miscalculated at this point, the method of measuring time they're using could also be way off.

Right now, they are narrowing down variables that could be responsible.

Remember: According to our current very-accurate model of physics, this is impossible, therefore we are doing everything we can to rule it out. If we can't find out what is causing the issue in our engineering, then it must be in the math and then we revise the model.

[rustak]

Alas, this is looking like it's as Lying said -- the method of measuring time was off, according to http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsid ... aster.html . Still breaking news, so more details will be coming... but I'm not sure whether to be relieved or disappointed that the original finding is likely not going to stand

[Master Gunner]

Well that's unfortunate, but expected. Ah well, the hope was nice, if only for a short time. On the bright side, there's still plenty of other cool things out there to discover.

[Keab42]

I saw the Bad Astronomer post this on G+. It's certainly fascinating that something so mundane could throw the whole thing off.

But I think this whole example has proven why science is so great. A group of scientists found some results that disagreed with everything they had been taught about how the universe works. So they opened that up to the greater community for study, and then set about meticulously examining their methodology to make sure that they were right.

It was exciting to think Einstein might have been wrong after all these years, but frankly it's just as exciting to learn that he's still right.

[Geoff_B]

Breaking news: We got it wrong!

[plummeting_sloth]

Alas, this is looking like it's as Lying said -- the method of measuring time was off, according to http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsid ... aster.html . Still breaking news, so more details will be coming... but I'm not sure whether to be relieved or disappointed that the original finding is likely not going to stand

Man... I'd buy that if it were true. I know I've gotten some fucked-up results because of a loose data cable before. Like that my Cone mantel was hotter than the Sun.

[Lord Chrusher]

Which part of the Sun?

[plummeting_sloth]

Well, any part would have been too damn hot, but hotter than the surface, I think (middle school science don't fail me now). It wasn't reading in the millions.