Doctor Who

[Geoff_B]

Also the fact that she got blown up along with the planet but I suppose that's more of a minor inconvenience.

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

Has it stopped any Doctor Who characters in the past?
Davros
Master
Numerous Daleks
etc

[Geoff_B]

It was a nice touch including daleks from all the planets from previous stories (Dalek's Master Plan, The Chase, Power of the Daleks, Planet of the Daleks, Death to the Daleks etc). Even more so if you've watched/heard/know the story of those serials.

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

Shame they didn't want to include Daleks to come. But would that be too timey wimey?

[Geoff_B]

Well since all the Daleks have forgotten who the Doctor is - be interesting to see how that pans out - maybe they didn't make the connection with future battles? There does seem to be a consistent chronology with the Daleks, unlike the Cybermen.

[Fezzul]

The chronology of the Daleks is actually a very interesting fan debate. Read the 1st and 2nd histories of the Daleks from the Discontinuity Guide, as far as I can tell the most authoritative source, if you would like to know more.

[Geoff_B]

Maybe the time war managed to merge both histories? It would explain why the daleks in Parting of the Ways are more like the ones from the pre-davros era.

[Lord Hosk]

Last time I checked the doctor was a time traveler right?

He was so impressed by the girl he met that he goes back in time before she gets dalekized and gives her some great adventures.

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

I don't think he plans on meeting her. I think he happens to come across her.

[korri]

I don't think he plans on meeting her. I think he happens to come across her.

I think this is it. Remember that he never actually sees what she looks like... I predict that he comes across her in his travels earlier in her timeline and only we, the viewers know who she is. Then the doctor figures out who she is when she asks him for eggs and milk for a souffle.

Now, she doesn't seem to recognize him when she first meets him, but she could be pretending she doesn't recognize him, or something timey wimey happened and she forgot etc.

In the end, I'm just pretty sure its the same-ish character the companion is going to be. In this ep her name was Oswin Oswald and the companion's name is Clara Oswin. So we'll see how it all works out.

[Geoff_B]

Apparently there's a bit of ambiguity over whether her name was going to be "Clara" in the first place or whether it was just something to tell the papers to hide her role in the story.

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

She could be doctor songing and lied about her name.
And either she's not human/from earth.

[Geoff_B]

I think her current condition counts as not human.

[tbug]

And either she's not human/from earth.

Is this publicized, or are you guessing?

[Master Gunner]

Finally got to see this episode, and I really liked Soufle Girl. I hope that even if it is an identical relative or something that becomes the companion, she keeps the same personality. I like it when the companion can match wits with the Doctor.

[RedNightmare]

Besides, her body was still intact inside the Dalek, so escape doesn't seem impossible. If someone can do it, its the genius

Yes and no. What we saw throughout the episode was her own imaginary escape pod, as part of her trying to rationalise her conversion into a dalek, she created a fantasy prison/dreamworld - I imagine that physically she had been changed into a squid-brain kaled just like all other daleks are.

It'll be interesting to see how they tackle this come christmas at any rate.

Actually, I disagree on the squid-brain part. I know that's what Daleks look like, but we see flashes of her trapped in something, with her head stuck and all. In this view she screams "I'm Human!" at the same time her Dalek form is doing this. So I think that view is actually her fysically body inside the Dalek Armor. They needed her for her smarts and might have been afraid that this would get lost if she got mutated. The Doctor might not know she is still in human form inside. But that view could have been from before she got transformed. I'm just saying, it's possible she still has her own body.

[Drinnik]

Has it stopped any Doctor Who characters in the past?
Davros
Master
Numerous Daleks
etc

Adric stayed dead, so maybe it's not so cut and dry for companions.

[tbug]

Adric stayed dead, so maybe it's not so cut and dry for companions.

Ooh, I hadn't thought of doing the comparison. Okay, companions who stayed dead:

Adelaide, Adric, Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart, Astrid, Kamelion, Katarina, and Sara Kingdom

Companions who died and got better:

Jack, Jamie, K9, Peri, River, and Rory

Who did I miss?

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

River is trapped in a VR.

@tbug I did read it off the BBc site but the news seemed to have vanished when they renovated the website YET again.

[Geoff_B]

Couple of points I'd like to raise:

The Brigadier died off screen in a rather moving scene which the Doctor only finds out about when he tries to contact him so I don't think that really counts.

Peri didn't die depending on who you believe - the Master or the Valeyard.

River did die and didn't get better, not in the physical universe at least.

Are we counting spinoff media for Jamie?

Oh and Amy died and got better at least once.

Now I've run out of people.

[Keab42]

River did die and didn't get better, not in the physical universe at least.

Eventually but she regenerated at least twice before that.

[tbug]

I was thinking of River's death by being shot by Hitler, after which she regenerated. Does that not count?

For the brig, not seeing his death actually makes him a better parallel to Soufflé Girl, in some ways. I see your point, but I still vote for his inclusion on the list.

I find your Peri argument more persuasive, on the other hand. I heard that her death was supposed to be canon but fan outrage led them to retcon. I can't document this, and even if I could I'm not sure whether it qualifies. Shall we strike her from the list? (As for believing the Valeyard, I'll stick to Rule One.)

Didn't Jamie die and get better while in the Land of Fiction, during The Mind Robber? Am I misremembering?

I forgot about The Pandorica Opens, but you are correct of course regarding Amy.

[Geoff_B]

I was thinking of River's death by being shot by Hitler, after which she regenerated. Does that not count?

For the brig, not seeing his death actually makes him a better parallel to Soufflé Girl, in some ways. I see your point, but I still vote for his inclusion on the list.

I find your Peri argument more persuasive, on the other hand. I heard that her death was supposed to be canon but fan outrage led them to retcon. I can't document this, and even if I could I'm not sure whether it qualifies. Shall we strike her from the list? (As for believing the Valeyard, I'll stick to Rule One.)

Didn't Jamie die and get better while in the Land of Fiction, during The Mind Robber? Am I misremembering?

I forgot about The Pandorica Opens, but you are correct of course regarding Amy.

All fair points, although I wasn't counting River's regeneration - you could also argue every Doctor in that case.

In The Mind Robber Jamie got his face blown off and Doc had to rebuild it from identikit pieces. Twice. But as to actually dying I don't think so. The only reference I can find to him dying is in a comic when he's an old man, hence my question about spinoff media.

[Geoff_B]

I was thinking of River's death by being shot by Hitler, after which she regenerated. Does that not count?

For the brig, not seeing his death actually makes him a better parallel to Soufflé Girl, in some ways. I see your point, but I still vote for his inclusion on the list.

I find your Peri argument more persuasive, on the other hand. I heard that her death was supposed to be canon but fan outrage led them to retcon. I can't document this, and even if I could I'm not sure whether it qualifies. Shall we strike her from the list? (As for believing the Valeyard, I'll stick to Rule One.)

Didn't Jamie die and get better while in the Land of Fiction, during The Mind Robber? Am I misremembering?

I forgot about The Pandorica Opens, but you are correct of course regarding Amy.

I didn't count regenerations, as you could also argue that for every Doctor.

In The Mind Robber Jamie managed to get his face blown off and Doc had to reconstruct it from identikit pieces (twice) but I don't believe he actually died in that story. The only reference I can find to the death of Jamie is in a comic when he's an old man, hence my question about spin off media.

And I'd much rather trust the Master over the Boatyard any day

[Merrymaker_Mortalis]

Double post! Oo But they're not identical wtF