Design a Card

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
User avatar
ZePancakes
Posts: 813
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 19:23
First Video: Bad News
Location: The Event Horizon, NSW, Aus

Re: Design a Card

Postby ZePancakes » 18 Mar 2013, 21:13

Duckay wrote:I think it's interesting that you say 'if... sacrifice it', rather than, 'if... you may sacrifice'. I don't really have any more thoughtful feedback on that, though.


I chose the former as it is more dependant on how you want to play. 'You/they have something good in the bin,' then I will be more willing to attack to get my counters OR I just hold out the board till the time is right.
Oh-h-h-h SNAP... Concede.

Image
User avatar
Kapol
Posts: 6120
Joined: 25 Nov 2010, 03:31
First Video: Whisky Tango Foxtrot
Location: The ever-shifting landscape of the mind

Re: Design a Card

Postby Kapol » 18 Mar 2013, 21:30

Dominic Appleguard wrote:Seraphic Paragon (2WW)
Creature - Angel
Flying, Shroud
If a spell would target a creature you control, you may copy that spell, targeting Seraphic Paragon as though it did not have Shroud.
Remember: it is through unity that we are strong.
2/3


It seems a bit... odd to me. Mostly because Shroud doesn't seem to be around much anymore, so I haven't played much with it. It's ability seems pretty powerful though, to the point I would say it'd be a good 5 or even a 6 drop. Maybe make it a 2/4 to even out the higher mana cost. I just see it having potentially powerful interactions with cards like Common Bond or similar cards which target multiple creatures.

Also, the wording almost makes it sound like you can infinitely look the spell due to multiple castings of it. But I'm not sure how to better word it.

ZePancakes wrote:Unholy Crusade (2B)
Enchantment

Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to an opponent, put a quest counter on Unholy Crusade.

At the beginning of your upkeep, if Unholy Crusade has 4 or more quest counters, sacrifice Unholy Crusade and search your or your opponents graveyard for a creature and put it on the battlefield.

"What do these abominations fight for?"
"The bones beneath your feet."


My main issue with this card is the fact that it's black, but you want to have creatures out and attacking. A lot of them too. It might work better as a WB card. Like I could see it being a good card at 1WB, or maybe even just WB.

As for working, it seems fine for the most part. The only major change would be at the end. Shift it to "sacrifice ~ and put target creature from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control." For flavor reasons, I'd also recommend putting in the usual "This creature becomes a black zombie as well as it's other creature types" on there as well.

Utilitarian wrote:The issue is that if the spell doesn't do anything beyond prevent them from bouncing the creature, it's basically inferior to Ranger's Guile. The idea behind the spell is to PUNISH them for using a tempo play spell.


And being able to play any other creature card with a CMC equal to the bounced one could be a potentially big punishment. It also stays true to Green's desire to have creatures on the board. In the case I mentioned, I got rid of the entire bit about the specific creature coming back out since there doesn't seem (to me) to be a way to make that really flow well with the normal game.

Also calling a spell that "undoes" the effect of a spell as the same thing as a counter seems off to me. If that were true any spell that gave Protection to a creature is a counterspell. Boros Charm is a counter spell. Safe Passage is a counter spell. The aforementioned Ranger's Guile is a counterspell.


Except those don't undo the spell like the one you mentioned did. Those add a static effect, such as a damage shield, indestructability, or hexproof to a creature. Spells failing after that are a side-effect of those spells being cast, not a result. The spell you mentioned does just straight up undoes the effect by having it happen, and then just un-happen. In some cases this can be significantly stronger due to the number of ETB creatures out there.

Essentially I'm trying to mod the spell to work similar to a Trap spell, where the spell has a significantly powerful effect for its cost, but is only useful under fairly specific circumstances.

I agree that the wording is awkward on it but unfortunately there isn't a catch all term for "Removed from the battlefield but not put into your graveyard or exiled"

I added the clause for Ability because, again, Ranger's Guile provides that effect as well. It's gotta have something more than just stopping the unsummon/azorius charm or I'd just play Ranger's Guile or Sheltering Word.


Honestly, I just don't see a trap card being better than those cards unless it does something pretty absurd, and even then I'd rather play one of those two nine times out of ten. Again, giving something Hexproof at instant speed isn't directly intended to counter something, that's a side effect of it getting hexproof.

In fact, I'd rather just play one of those two to the version you presented most the time since it's effect is virtually the same as Sheltering Word with an ETB trigger thrown in. The only situation where it's strictly better is the same where it becomes too much depending on effect. Namely, an overloaded Cyclonic Rift. Since it's mass bounce, the original version (since it'd bring back all of your creatures) would just either A. Kill your opponent, or B. Give you a ton of life.
User avatar
Utilitarian
Posts: 1211
Joined: 05 Nov 2012, 00:16
First Video: Checkpoint 01
Location: Burnaby, BC

Re: Design a Card

Postby Utilitarian » 18 Mar 2013, 22:07

Garruk's Retort. (2G)
Instant
If a spell an opponent controls would cause target creature you control to leave the battlefield this turn,that opponent takes damage equal to that creature's power, then draw a card.
"Choke on your cleverness and die" -Garruk, to Jace

Covers a wider range of control abilities, no longer undoes the spell effect, slightly more versatile upside. The cantrip downgrades Azorius Charm effects into standard Unsummon.

*edit* also I'd argue that those instant speed hexproof for one round spells are definitely designed to counter something. Casting them when your creature isn't already being targetted is just opening yourself up to having them kill or bounce it in response
Last edited by Utilitarian on 18 Mar 2013, 22:16, edited 1 time in total.
Look at the cards. LOOK AT THE CARDS!
The Saga of Ballchannels: My Dwarf Fortress Let's Play
User avatar
Kapol
Posts: 6120
Joined: 25 Nov 2010, 03:31
First Video: Whisky Tango Foxtrot
Location: The ever-shifting landscape of the mind

Re: Design a Card

Postby Kapol » 18 Mar 2013, 22:14

That looks better to me. The card draw seems a bit odd, but I'd be more willing to forgive it given the fact Garruk himself does it. It might be better to remove the draw a card and make the damage done to target creature or player to balance that removal. Either that, or make the spell just GG instead of 2G without the card (though GG could be fine with targeting damage).
User avatar
Kapol
Posts: 6120
Joined: 25 Nov 2010, 03:31
First Video: Whisky Tango Foxtrot
Location: The ever-shifting landscape of the mind

Re: Design a Card

Postby Kapol » 18 Mar 2013, 22:22

Utilitarian wrote:*edit* also I'd argue that those instant speed hexproof for one round spells are definitely designed to counter something. Casting them when your creature isn't already being targetted is just opening yourself up to having them kill or bounce it in response


That may be true. Though it's important to remember that multi-target spells aren't flat-out countered by giving something hexproof, since non-hexproof creatures will be hit if targeted by the spell. Either way that outcome is a side-effect in terms of the mechanics of the game itself. The main problem I had with the wording was that it still had the effect happen, but then it just un-happened for lack of a better way to put it.
User avatar
ZePancakes
Posts: 813
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 19:23
First Video: Bad News
Location: The Event Horizon, NSW, Aus

Re: Design a Card

Postby ZePancakes » 18 Mar 2013, 22:27

I understand your reasoning for including W into it but for it to yield the most versatility, it holds its own as black. Like for Dimir shenanigans, Rakdos shenanigans, etc.

EDIT: So that may warrant a name change but eh.
Oh-h-h-h SNAP... Concede.

Image
User avatar
Kapol
Posts: 6120
Joined: 25 Nov 2010, 03:31
First Video: Whisky Tango Foxtrot
Location: The ever-shifting landscape of the mind

Re: Design a Card

Postby Kapol » 18 Mar 2013, 22:37

That'll make it more versatile, yes. It just seems like an odd effect for a mono-black card. It seems more like it belongs in red-black for aggro, white-black for tokens, or maybe green-black for the simple fact green is smashy. All of those specifically are when you'd want to be attacking. But black by itself seems a bit off.

*shrug* that's just how I see it though.
User avatar
ZePancakes
Posts: 813
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 19:23
First Video: Bad News
Location: The Event Horizon, NSW, Aus

Re: Design a Card

Postby ZePancakes » 18 Mar 2013, 22:47

Upon reflection, I'd rework the flavour to make it a dimir thang. Still using the mechanics noted (and is more preferable with their number of unblockable creatures). Flavour can always be sorted out.
Oh-h-h-h SNAP... Concede.

Image
User avatar
JackSlack
Posts: 4572
Joined: 15 Oct 2010, 19:46
First Video: ENN, but I forget which.
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Design a Card

Postby JackSlack » 19 Mar 2013, 00:40

Duckay wrote:Rioting Goblin (2R)
Creature - Goblin Warrior
Haste
Whenever a player draws more than one card in a turn, Rioting Goblin deals 1 damage to that player for each card drawn.
"No."
2/2

Yeah, yeah, I know it has problems. :P That being said, if anyone has any advice to make it theoretically playable, I'm all ears.


Actually, just a request for a clarification. Let's say I have out Howling Mine. Do we each take two points of damage per turn (one for each card, which is the most literal interpretation of that) or one (for the second card)?
User avatar
Dominic Appleguard
Posts: 1536
Joined: 24 Apr 2008, 20:05
Location: Chicago

Re: Design a Card

Postby Dominic Appleguard » 19 Mar 2013, 10:55

Kapol wrote:
Dominic Appleguard wrote:Seraphic Paragon (2WW)
Creature - Angel
Flying, Shroud
If a spell would target a creature you control, you may copy that spell, targeting Seraphic Paragon as though it did not have Shroud.
Remember: it is through unity that we are strong.
2/3
It seems a bit... odd to me. Mostly because Shroud doesn't seem to be around much anymore, so I haven't played much with it. It's ability seems pretty powerful though, to the point I would say it'd be a good 5 or even a 6 drop. Maybe make it a 2/4 to even out the higher mana cost. I just see it having potentially powerful interactions with cards like Common Bond or similar cards which target multiple creatures.

Also, the wording almost makes it sound like you can infinitely look the spell due to multiple castings of it. But I'm not sure how to better word it.

The flavor I was going for was that you can't target it directly with pump or burn spells or what have you, so if you control no other creatures it doesn't interact meaningfully with spells. Maybe it would be more balanced if it had "reverse Hexproof", wherein your own spells can't target it.

As to the infinite thing...maybe it could work for "nontoken spells" (not currently a term). Or, it could only work once each turn, which also offsets the power of the effect as originally designed.
User avatar
JackSlack
Posts: 4572
Joined: 15 Oct 2010, 19:46
First Video: ENN, but I forget which.
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Design a Card

Postby JackSlack » 19 Mar 2013, 13:36

Ooh, you guys just gave me an idea for one.

Planeshift (1UU)
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures with hexproof or shroud.
"If an object is immovable, move everything around it and reconstruct it instead."
User avatar
Drecon
Posts: 1234
Joined: 11 Feb 2013, 09:45
First Video: Ransom
Location: John Malkovich

Re: Design a Card

Postby Drecon » 19 Mar 2013, 13:41

JackSlack wrote:Ooh, you guys just gave me an idea for one.

Planeshift (1UU)
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures with hexproof or shroud.
"If an object is immovable, move everything around it and reconstruct it instead."


The card actually feels more green to me than blue. It's nothing like blue to outright destroy something.
"if it ain't shiny, rub it on your hiney"
User avatar
ZePancakes
Posts: 813
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 19:23
First Video: Bad News
Location: The Event Horizon, NSW, Aus

Re: Design a Card

Postby ZePancakes » 19 Mar 2013, 15:26

Cranial Extraction (3UB)
Sorcery

Target player reveals the first 3 cards of his or her library, you may place a creature among them onto the battlefield tapped under your control. The other cards are put into the graveyard.

Cipher

"Breaking into the mind is easy... Getting things out, on the other-hand..."

----------------

Made on a whim. Not the best/accurate wording so revisions are go.
Oh-h-h-h SNAP... Concede.

Image
User avatar
JackSlack
Posts: 4572
Joined: 15 Oct 2010, 19:46
First Video: ENN, but I forget which.
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Design a Card

Postby JackSlack » 19 Mar 2013, 15:28

Drecon wrote:
JackSlack wrote:Ooh, you guys just gave me an idea for one.

Planeshift (1UU)
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures with hexproof or shroud.
"If an object is immovable, move everything around it and reconstruct it instead."


The card actually feels more green to me than blue. It's nothing like blue to outright destroy something.


I could see it as 1GG as well.
User avatar
Lord Hosk
Posts: 6587
Joined: 07 Dec 2011, 08:30
First Video: Checkpoint: Into the breach
Location: Half and inch below the knuckle of the ring finger. MI

Re: Design a Card

Postby Lord Hosk » 19 Mar 2013, 15:49

ZePancakes wrote:Cranial Extractionmanipulation (3UB)
Sorcery

Target player reveals the top 3 cards of his or her library, you may place a creature from among them onto the battlefield tapped and under your control. Place All other cards are put into their graveyard.

"Breaking into the mind is easy... So is getting things out."



To add cypher I would say 4UB thats powerful
Last edited by Lord Hosk on 19 Mar 2013, 16:19, edited 1 time in total.
Beware Bering Crystal Bears, Bearing Crystals. (Especially if the crystals they are bearing are, themselves, Bering Crystal Bears.) -Old, Stupid Proverb

[–]Graham_LRR
You hear that Khoo? We're almost better than the comic!
User avatar
Lord Hosk
Posts: 6587
Joined: 07 Dec 2011, 08:30
First Video: Checkpoint: Into the breach
Location: Half and inch below the knuckle of the ring finger. MI

Re: Design a Card

Postby Lord Hosk » 19 Mar 2013, 15:57

Imsobro Oaken 2GR
2/2 Creature
deathtouch

R (tap) Imsobro Oaken deals 1 damage to creature or player

"Oh you like your creatures? Mr oaken hates them"
Beware Bering Crystal Bears, Bearing Crystals. (Especially if the crystals they are bearing are, themselves, Bering Crystal Bears.) -Old, Stupid Proverb

[–]Graham_LRR
You hear that Khoo? We're almost better than the comic!
User avatar
JackSlack
Posts: 4572
Joined: 15 Oct 2010, 19:46
First Video: ENN, but I forget which.
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Design a Card

Postby JackSlack » 19 Mar 2013, 16:02

Joke or not, that does suggest a fun card mechanic of a 1/1 creature with Deathtouch, cannot be enchanted, immune to deathtouch; tap to do one point of damage to itself and one other creature. End result? An overly expensive, difficult to use Doomblade... unless you can find ways to prop it up with sorceries, instants, and other creatures.

Probably still OP.
User avatar
Utilitarian
Posts: 1211
Joined: 05 Nov 2012, 00:16
First Video: Checkpoint 01
Location: Burnaby, BC

Re: Design a Card

Postby Utilitarian » 19 Mar 2013, 16:09

Also Cranial Extraction is already a card, unforunately
Look at the cards. LOOK AT THE CARDS!
The Saga of Ballchannels: My Dwarf Fortress Let's Play
User avatar
ZePancakes
Posts: 813
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 19:23
First Video: Bad News
Location: The Event Horizon, NSW, Aus

Re: Design a Card

Postby ZePancakes » 19 Mar 2013, 18:29

Haha as I said, on a whim and was leaving for a lab.
Revision:

Cranial Abduction (4UB)
Sorcery

Target player reveals the top 3 cards of his or her library, you may place a creature from among them onto the battlefield tapped and under your control. Place all other cards into their graveyard.

Cipher

"Remember, the best ideas are usually at the bottom." - Svak, Duskmantle Guildmage

------
Edit: Also, I had no idea it was already taken, wasn't playing during Kamigawa block. So I am making the habit to check gatherer just in case haha.
Oh-h-h-h SNAP... Concede.

Image
User avatar
iamafish
Posts: 4804
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 10:28
First Video: Crime and Punishment
Location: Oxford/Worcestershire, England
Contact:

Re: Design a Card

Postby iamafish » 20 Mar 2013, 03:13

I don't know that many cards, so I don't know whether there is already a mechanic that does this, but I think it's a really cool idea.

Freeze in Time (UW)
Enchantment - Aura

Enchanted creature does not tap or untap

"Things are just fine as they are, thank you very much" - Anonymous Azorius Senator

Basically, the idea is to function either as a sleep style card, or as a cars which gives vigilance, depending on what you need at the time

*edit for spelling*
Last edited by iamafish on 20 Mar 2013, 07:10, edited 1 time in total.
Thoughts From a Fish Bowl<------ my blog...

My Twitter

iamafish never wrote:the male trouser snake is evidence that evolution has no sense of aesthetics
User avatar
Drecon
Posts: 1234
Joined: 11 Feb 2013, 09:45
First Video: Ransom
Location: John Malkovich

Re: Design a Card

Postby Drecon » 20 Mar 2013, 07:07

iamafish wrote:I don't know that many cards, so I don't know whether there is already a mechanic that does this, but I think it's a really cool idea.

Freeze in Time (UW)
Enchantment - Aura

Enchanted creature does not tap or untap

"Things are just fine as they are, thank you very much" - Anonymous Axzorius Senator

Basically, the idea is to function either as a sleep style card, or as a cars which gives vigilance, depending on what you need at the time


This style of card is usually just mono-blue, but it does work fine as this card. Nice design actually.
"if it ain't shiny, rub it on your hiney"
User avatar
iamafish
Posts: 4804
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 10:28
First Video: Crime and Punishment
Location: Oxford/Worcestershire, England
Contact:

Re: Design a Card

Postby iamafish » 20 Mar 2013, 07:19

I made it a blue-white both to fit with the Azorius side of things, and because vigilance tends to be quite a white mechanic.
Thoughts From a Fish Bowl<------ my blog...

My Twitter

iamafish never wrote:the male trouser snake is evidence that evolution has no sense of aesthetics
User avatar
Kapol
Posts: 6120
Joined: 25 Nov 2010, 03:31
First Video: Whisky Tango Foxtrot
Location: The ever-shifting landscape of the mind

Re: Design a Card

Postby Kapol » 20 Mar 2013, 10:13

g
Duckay wrote:Card


Given that it's a red card, I feel like it wants to be "Whenever a player draws a card, ~ deals 1 damage to them. I also feel like it's cost should be 1RR for being such a red card. It burns, hurts card draw (which is a mostly blue focus), and it's a Goblin with haste.

Dominic Appleguard wrote:The flavor I was going for was that you can't target it directly with pump or burn spells or what have you, so if you control no other creatures it doesn't interact meaningfully with spells. Maybe it would be more balanced if it had "reverse Hexproof", wherein your own spells can't target it.

As to the infinite thing...maybe it could work for "nontoken spells" (not currently a term). Or, it could only work once each turn, which also offsets the power of the effect as originally designed.


I get what flavor you were going for. But the fact that you can only reap the benefit without your opponent being able to target it. I'd say that the best way to do it would be the one-per-turn idea, or better yet, have it so every spell has to be copied and target it. Maybe add in a clause saying that if the spell would target more than one creature, only ~ can be targeted.

Drecon wrote:The card actually feels more green to me than blue. It's nothing like blue to outright destroy something.


I'd personally say Jack's card seems more white. It's basically a specific Wrath. Plus, Green is the biggest color for Hexproof is I remember correctly, so it seems like it's be odd to have a green card that destroys hexproof creatures.

ZePancakes, that card seems like it could become very broken depending on when it comes out. But I'd say that'd be mostly fine for now.

iamafish wrote:I don't know that many cards, so I don't know whether there is already a mechanic that does this, but I think it's a really cool idea.

Freeze in Time (UW)
Enchantment - Aura

Enchanted creature does not tap or untap

"Things are just fine as they are, thank you very much" - Anonymous Azorius Senator

Basically, the idea is to function either as a sleep style card, or as a cars which gives vigilance, depending on what you need at the time

*edit for spelling*


The flavor seems off to me. 'Freeze In Time' implies that the creature is frozen in time. Meaning it wouldn't be able to do anything. I'd also say you'd want to make it cost 1WU due to the ability. Being able to give Vigilance or keep something tapped down is a pretty powerful and versitile ability to have on one card.

If I were to go with flavor though, it's look something like this:

Freeze In Time - 2WU
Enchantment-Aura

Enchanted creature cannot attack or use abilities. Enchanted creature does not untap during it's controller's untap step. Enchanted Creature can not be the target of spells or abilities. Enchanted creature cannot be removed from the battlefield.


Basically making it so it stays there forever, frozen in time. But that's just the idea that popped into my head. :P
User avatar
iamafish
Posts: 4804
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 10:28
First Video: Crime and Punishment
Location: Oxford/Worcestershire, England
Contact:

Re: Design a Card

Postby iamafish » 20 Mar 2013, 11:26

I was trying to think of a name for it, I probably didn't arrive at the best. I like the ability and flavour text, but I'll work on a new name. how about 'Preserve', in the sense that it's keeping things as they currently are.

I agree it may need to be more expensive. I considered making it a 1WU initially, but went with making it a 2 drop because that tends to be the cost for cards which have similar effects - Narcolepsy, Pacifism and Sleeping Potion. Or lower, in the case of Vigilance and Apathy (although that's because Apathy has a significant caveat).

I suppose if forcibly tapping a creature after it untaps, stopping it from attacking or blocking, or stopping it from untapping would cost 2 and giving a creature vigilance would be 1, then the CMC of a card which has the potential to do both might justifiably be 3. I'm not really sure how to judge cost-to-power ratios, so I just took the usual cost of the most powerful ability, given that you can't do both abilities at the same time with the same card.
Thoughts From a Fish Bowl<------ my blog...

My Twitter

iamafish never wrote:the male trouser snake is evidence that evolution has no sense of aesthetics
DannySmooth
Posts: 6
Joined: 17 Jan 2013, 16:22
First Video: daily drop, i guess

Re: Design a Card

Postby DannySmooth » 20 Mar 2013, 17:26

How about this:

Drawn and Quartered 1 U G/B
Enchantment- enchant creature

Activated and triggered abilities are countered.

"There's not much you can't do with a length of rope" - A Simic's guide to Anatomy

Return to “Magic: The Gathering”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest