Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 11 Sep 2014, 18:34

An excellent example, and a subtle one, at that.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 12 Sep 2014, 14:21

I'm assuming "is unblockable" and "can't be blocked" are just different wordings for the same thing?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 12 Sep 2014, 14:45

Correct. No blocking choice that includes a creature blocking that creature is legal (you may be able to get around that in other ways).

I haven't looked, but you'll probably find the oracle wording is identical.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 12 Sep 2014, 22:27

They renamed "unblockable" to "can't be blocked" with M14 at the same time they turned "indestructible" into a keyword ability, to emphasise that fact that "unblockable" is not an ability. It's functionally unchanged, they just changed the wording.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 12 Sep 2014, 22:32

Can you Turn To Frog and Amphin Pathmage (or something it's targeted) to make it lose unblockable? I'm not sure. I would think no, due to it not being an ability (as phlip said).
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 12 Sep 2014, 22:41

That is correct. As long as you're not removing the abilities of something giving the unblockability (the static ability on a Phantom Warrior, for example), it's still unblockable.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby chetoos » 16 Sep 2014, 12:57

What happens when an outside effect causes you to sac an ordeal, such as annihilator?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby ElFuzzy » 16 Sep 2014, 13:06

It still activates. That trigger is looking for any sacrifice outlet so regardless of how many counters the enchanted creature has any act that makes you sacrifice it activates the ability. The 3 counters mechanic is just the on board outlet to make it useful.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Tinfish » 17 Sep 2014, 03:49

If I cast Repentance ("Target creature deals to itself damage equal to its power") on a Phyrexian Obliterator ("Whenever a source deals damage to Phyrexian Obliterator, that source's controller sacrifices that many permanents"), who sacrifices the permanents? The Obliterator's owner, since it's dealing damage to itself? Or me, for causing it to damage itself?

Also, what kind of hallucinogenic atog ("hallucinatog") were they licking when they decided that four mana was a suitable cost for the Obliterator?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby jkefka » 17 Sep 2014, 03:53

Oh man, you have YEARS of broken cards to catch up on, don't you. Check out Tarmogoyf and Jace the Mind Sculpter for a real dose of "What were they thinking?!"

Anyways a straight read of the cards involved says that the "source" of the damage would in fact be the obliterator itself and not the repentance, so I would assume that the obliterator's controller does the sacrificing. Not a judge however, so I'm willing to be surprised.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Tinfish » 17 Sep 2014, 04:03

Yeah, I was told about Jace the Mind Sculptor and his "Say goodbye to your library!" trick. Having just checked out Tarmagoyf ... that's a really bizarre *-power. Cards I could see, or cards of a certain type, but different card types?! That's just ... indeed, WTF were they thinking.

Hm. I have some cards that are classed as mana sources or interrupts; I understand that these all now count as instants for the purposes of resolving speeds, and go on the stack. But for Tarmagoyf's purposes, are they instants or interrupts (or mana sources)? Is a Global Enchantment counted differently to a Creature Enchantment or an Enchant Enchantment, or are they all just Enchantments?

Yeah, that thing is crazy. I'm rather glad they've retreated from such insane broken-ness. Morph may be clunky and unwieldy, but at least morphed cards still have some respect for cost/power balance!
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 17 Sep 2014, 04:14

Tinfish wrote:Yeah, I was told about Jace the Mind Sculptor and his "Say goodbye to your library!" trick. Having just checked out Tarmagoyf ... that's a really bizarre *-power. Cards I could see, or cards of a certain type, but different card types?! That's just ... indeed, WTF were they thinking.

Well, Future Sight was a weird set. Tarmogoyf's primary purpose was that they could stick "Planeswalker" in the reminder text that lists all the card types, when Planeswalker cards wouldn't exist until Lorwyn, the next block.

Tinfish wrote:Hm. I have some cards that are classed as mana sources or interrupts; I understand that these all now count as instants for the purposes of resolving speeds, and go on the stack. But for Tarmagoyf's purposes, are they instants or interrupts (or mana sources)? Is a Global Enchantment counted differently to a Creature Enchantment or an Enchant Enchantment, or are they all just Enchantments?

Interrupts (and the short-lived Mana Sources) are all officially instants now, ever since the stack was introduced in 6th Ed and got rid of the need for interrupts and their mysterious ways. Regardless of what it says on the physical card, the only thing that matters is what it says in Oracle, and there they're all instants, and count as such for Tarmogoyf (and also other things that care about instants). Similarly, what used to be "Enchant Creature" cards are now "Enchantment - Aura" and have "Enchant Creature" as an ability (their only type is "Enchantment", and have "Aura" as a subtype). What were once called "global enchantments" are now just enchantments that aren't Auras (there isn't a pithy name for them, so "global enchantment" still sees some informal use).
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby DelphiSantano » 17 Sep 2014, 23:42

Tinfish wrote:If I cast Repentance ("Target creature deals to itself damage equal to its power") on a Phyrexian Obliterator ("Whenever a source deals damage to Phyrexian Obliterator, that source's controller sacrifices that many permanents"), who sacrifices the permanents? The Obliterator's owner, since it's dealing damage to itself? Or me, for causing it to damage itself?

jkefka wrote:Anyways a straight read of the cards involved says that the "source" of the damage would in fact be the obliterator itself and not the repentance, so I would assume that the obliterator's controller does the sacrificing. Not a judge however, so I'm willing to be surprised.


jkefka's right, the source would be the Obliterator itself, so your opponent would be losing the Obliterator to lethal damage and sacrificing 5 other permanents.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Asthanius » 19 Sep 2014, 14:13

Let's say my opponent casts Stubborn Denial and has only one creature with power 4 or greater. In response to the counterspell, I Hero's Downfall that creature, killing it before the counterspell resolves. Do I now have a chance to pay 1 mana to keep my spell from being countered?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 19 Sep 2014, 14:25

Not a judge, but I'd say yes, because I believe it checks for Ferocious at resolution, not casting.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 19 Sep 2014, 16:47

Most of the Ferocious spells check on resolution whether the condition is met. The exception is Dragon Grip, which checks on casting, since it controls when/how you can cast it (it doesn't check again on resolution, so if you cast it and lose Ferocious in response, it doesn't get countered or uncast or anything). The other exception is Heir of the Wilds, which is a trigger with an intervening if clause, so it checks on both triggering and resolution. All the rest, the Ferocious clause changes what the spell does when it resolves, so it's checked on resolution.

It's like Devotion from Theros... always checked on resolution except for Mogis's Marauder, which checked on triggering since it controlled how many targets the trigger has (and thus you needed to know when you put it on the stack).
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Tinfish » 19 Sep 2014, 19:11

Here's an outdated question; if I block something big with my Warrior en-Kor ("0: Redirect one damage from Warrior en-Kor to a creature you control") and the Warrior takes, say, six damage - enough to kill it - can I redirect all that damage to something else before the damage resolves? Does each use of the ability go on the stack separately?

If I redirect damage to Wall of Souls, does that count as combat damage, and thus trigger Wall of Souls' ability ("When Wall of Souls is dealt combat damage, it deals an equal amount of damage to target opponent")?

If I use multiple Kor blockers to transfer more than four damage to Wall of Souls, does that transferral occur simultaneously - meaning that I can transfer an arbitrarily large amount of damage to the Wall, and thus do an arbitrarily large amount of damage to my opponent - or sequentially - meaning that more than four damage would kill the Wall, and the remainder would fizzle?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby VectorZero » 19 Sep 2014, 23:14

Warrior en-Kor has been oracled to read "0: The next 1 damage that would be dealt to Warrior en-Kor this turn is dealt to target creature you control instead." Now, since the "damage on the stack" rule change, you activate the ability in Declare Blockers before the damage is dealt. So...

can I redirect all that damage to something else before the damage resolves? Yes
Does each use of the ability go on the stack separately? Yes
If I redirect damage to Wall of Souls, does that count as combat damage, and thus trigger Wall of Souls' ability ("When Wall of Souls is dealt combat damage, it deals an equal amount of damage to target opponent")? Yes
If I use multiple Kor blockers to transfer more than four damage to Wall of Souls, does that transferral occur simultaneously - meaning that I can transfer an arbitrarily large amount of damage to the Wall, and thus do an arbitrarily large amount of damage to my opponent - or sequentially - meaning that more than four damage would kill the Wall, and the remainder would fizzle? You can transfer as much as you like before damage is dealt, then it is all dealt simultaneously in the Combat Damage step. You can activate the ability as many times as you like, and have a source deal as much damage to wall of souls (and hence to your opponent) as you like, from only one Warrior en-Kor.

Have a look at the gatherer.wizards.com entry for Warrior en-Kor. The rulings answers most of your questions.

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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 20 Sep 2014, 05:09

VectorZero wrote:You can activate the ability as many times as you like, and have a source deal as much damage to wall of souls (and hence to your opponent) as you like, from only one Warrior en-Kor.

Though, to clarify: you can only redirect as much damage is actually being dealt to your en-Kor, so if your en-Kor attacks and is blocked by a 5/5, and you activate its ability, say, 10 times targeting your wall, then your wall will still be dealt 5 combat damage by the 5/5.

I'm sure that's pretty obvious in practise, but I could see someone misunderstanding "as much damage as you like" to think you could end up with you being able to deal a million damage to your wall and instantly kill you opponent...
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Atifexe » 20 Sep 2014, 23:54

At one point, I read someone saying online that the en-Kor ability broke up the damage into 1-point increments, rather than having the damage still be dealt as one block. Consequently, I was of the impression that having a Lymph Sliver out would allow my en-Kor creatures to functionally be indestructible. Damage redirection can be confusing. =P
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 21 Sep 2014, 00:35

Given there's a bit of a shitstorm going on on Reddit about it, there's a question that's been on my mind about splitting. Namely, is splitting really legal? From rule 5.2 of the tournament rules:

Players are allowed to share prizes they have not yet received in the current tournament as they wish and may agree as such before or during their match, as long as any such sharing does not occur in exchange for any game or match result or the dropping of a player from the tournament. As an exception, players in the announced last round of the single-elimination portion of a tournament may agree to divide tournament prizes as they wish. In that case, one of the players at each table must agree to drop from the tournament. Players are then awarded prizes according to their resulting ranking.


So how does splitting really come into this? When people split, they normally assume they'll get equal prizes. But isn't it the case that, realistically, they'll go off who gets first and second due to tiebreakers? Is it up to the store to decide if they'll split the prize between people with equal points?

Like, you can't say "I'll give you 2 packs of the 4 extra packs if we draw and I get first." But you can say "we'll draw, and whoever gets first will split the difference between us?" I'm just not sure for sure how the situation is handled.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 21 Sep 2014, 01:38

Atifexe wrote:At one point, I read someone saying online that the en-Kor ability broke up the damage into 1-point increments, rather than having the damage still be dealt as one block. Consequently, I was of the impression that having a Lymph Sliver out would allow my en-Kor creatures to functionally be indestructible. Damage redirection can be confusing. =P

If a Warrior en-Kor has 3 damage aimed at it from a Lightning Strike and you redirect all of the damage, it is still dealt as a single block of 3 damage. A Lymph Sliver is still going to take 2 damage.

It's essentially as if the damage was never touching the Warrior en-Kor. So you can treat it as if the Lightning Strike was directly aimed at the Sliver (except for targeting restrictions)

Splitting prizes
Always a bit of a grey area. As a simple answer, "Yes, splitting prizes is legal". But you have to be very careful you don't end up offering something in exchange for it.

If someone says "Hey, if you concede to me I'll split the prizes", then that person is facing immediate disqualification (and his opponent will too if a judge isn't called immediately). But if they say "How about, whatever happens, we split the prizes?" then that is ok. After that is agreed on then you could play a match for the sake of it, or decide to intentionally draw the match.

The best thing to do here, if anything other than a normal game of Magic is going to be played, is call a judge!. Do this before any of the conversation takes place and you'll both be fine.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby ElFuzzy » 21 Sep 2014, 05:27

Does arresting a facedown creature negate the ability to morph it? The morph ability isn't part of the 2/2 so I'm not sure how to go about it.

ALSO if Ashcloud phoenix is killed while morphed does it still return to the battlefield?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby VectorZero » 21 Sep 2014, 06:22

phlip wrote:I'm sure that's pretty obvious in practise, but I could see someone misunderstanding "as much damage as you like" to think you could end up with you being able to deal a million damage to your wall and instantly kill you opponent...

Good point, thanks. Poor phrasing on my part.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby tamaness » 21 Sep 2014, 12:50

Kapol wrote:Given there's a bit of a shitstorm going on on Reddit about it, there's a question that's been on my mind about splitting. Namely, is splitting really legal? From rule 5.2 of the tournament rules:

Players are allowed to share prizes they have not yet received in the current tournament as they wish and may agree as such before or during their match, as long as any such sharing does not occur in exchange for any game or match result or the dropping of a player from the tournament. As an exception, players in the announced last round of the single-elimination portion of a tournament may agree to divide tournament prizes as they wish. In that case, one of the players at each table must agree to drop from the tournament. Players are then awarded prizes according to their resulting ranking.


So how does splitting really come into this? When people split, they normally assume they'll get equal prizes. But isn't it the case that, realistically, they'll go off who gets first and second due to tiebreakers? Is it up to the store to decide if they'll split the prize between people with equal points?

Like, you can't say "I'll give you 2 packs of the 4 extra packs if we draw and I get first." But you can say "we'll draw, and whoever gets first will split the difference between us?" I'm just not sure for sure how the situation is handled.


Players can choose to redistribute the prizes, as long as the redistribution isn't dependant on a specific match result.

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