Doctor Who

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Merrymaker_Mortalis
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 03 Oct 2015, 12:30

Lastest episode I enjoyed.
Pleasantly sinister.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby 7SecondsLeft » 03 Oct 2015, 12:38

Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:Lastest episode I enjoyed.
Pleasantly sinister.


Totally agree. The bit with the cards was a nice bit of humour as well, and good to see the Doctor noticing Clara going native!

Just a shame about the To Be Continued! I know they didn't really die, but it's still not a good cliffhanger to leave us on for another whole week! (spoilered to allow for strange people in silly timezones who probably won't have watched it yet)
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 03 Oct 2015, 13:45

I have a theory of what's going on. If it's correct, it will be a huge spoiler for the second part.

The pilot of the craft in the event of an emergency hides in a invulnerable pod. So invulnerable it has to be opened by recovery people. So the pod creates an electromagnetic avatar of the pilot that broadcasts the co-ordinates. It also slaughters nearby sentient life who get educated by the co-ordinate. As in the episode, more beings turned into broadcasting units, the stronger the signal.

I reckon in the past the Doctor does a switch-a-roo and is in the pod. That is how he escapes his "pre-destined death".

I don't think the explanation of the ghosts make them less scary. It makes it really disturbing.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Necabo » 04 Oct 2015, 07:35

Liked the last episode proper scary stuff.
bit of a pity it is a two-parter again; but that does give them a little more time to write a good story.

Funny thing, this is the first doctor who I have seen live because my parents have access to BBC one :o
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby tbug » 04 Oct 2015, 07:56

7SecondsLeft wrote:SJA wasn't too bad, but the episodes we've had previously featuring the kids at Coal Hill (e.g. that crappy one where the Doctor pretends to be a caretaker, that very crappy one with the trees, that really stupidly crappy one with the moon) were annoyingly crappy, so I'm not holding out too much hope.


None of that stuff was written by Patrick Ness. Union rules give him an incentive not to use characters created by other people, so I think we'll mostly see original characters and monsters and such. I'm a little sad about that, because I thought Courtney had a lot of unrealized potential as a character. Maybe she'll have some cameos, or maybe Ness won't care about money.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby 7SecondsLeft » 05 Oct 2015, 01:45

tbug wrote:None of that stuff was written by Patrick Ness. Union rules give him an incentive not to use characters created by other people, so I think we'll mostly see original characters and monsters and such. I'm a little sad about that, because I thought Courtney had a lot of unrealized potential as a character. Maybe she'll have some cameos, or maybe Ness won't care about money.


True, there is always the potential that Patrick Ness will write better episodes than we've seen in the past - I've never read any of his books, so I don't know what to expect. Happily, most of the internet who have read his stuff seem appropriately excited, which is a definite plus point.

However, I fully expect that he will probably reuse existing Coal Hill characters where ever possible, as he has been contracted to write stories for the Doctor Who production team who already own those characters. He isn't inventing his own universe here, and it's unlikely that he'll own the rights to anything he creates outside of whatever the existing Doctor Who writer contracts allow.

The only reasons I can imagine why he wouldn't reuse characters or monsters are either logistical (no Doctor / Clara / other sidekick unless they happen to be filming close by and can drop in for a quick cameo), or financial (no Daleks because BBC3 won't have the budget to pay the license), which probably means Courtney will be back as long as she hasn't priced herself out of the market already.

So as long as the grind of writing 8 TV episodes to the demands of an existing production team, and within tight budget and time constraints don't break someone more used to spending as long as he wants to write whatever he needs to make an interesting book, there is some room for optimism, I suppose :)

(Edit: That reply ended up slightly longer than I originally intended!)
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby tbug » 05 Oct 2015, 08:05

The show hasn't been cast yet, but Clara isn't in it. Each episode pays money to whichever writer created a character appearing in that episode. This isn't the same thing as having the rights to that character, but it is financial incentive to make sure that you create all your main characters.

That said, I'm still hoping Ian shows up at least once.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Darkflame » 05 Oct 2015, 11:49

I enjoyed that epp. Not quite sure about the whole ghost/not ghost thing, seeing as that feels like it comes up a lot. Still worked well enough for me so far, but as before, a lot depends on the resolution.

I also note one of them didn't see the writing.

7SecondsLeft wrote:SJA wasn't too bad, but the episodes we've had previously featuring the kids at Coal Hill (e.g. that crappy one where the Doctor pretends to be a caretaker, that very crappy one with the trees, that really stupidly crappy one with the moon) were annoyingly crappy, so I'm not holding out too much hope.


Agreed on all counts with those epps.
I don't think the school or kids were particular to blame though.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby tbug » 05 Oct 2015, 12:42

Darkflame wrote:I also note one of them didn't see the writing.


Isn't that why the ghost left him alive?

Darkflame wrote:Agreed on all counts with those epps. I don't think the school or kids were particular to blame though.


Remembrance of the Daleks was a good story.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby 7SecondsLeft » 06 Oct 2015, 02:08

tbug wrote:Each episode pays money to whichever writer created a character appearing in that episode. This isn't the same thing as having the rights to that character, but it is financial incentive to make sure that you create all your main characters.


That's interesting, I didn't realise the writers still got residuals for characters they create. Steven Moffat has said in interviews about the issues of using characters from the Russell T Davies era, but I'd always read that to mean they were tied to the old production team, not to the writers themselves.

And while I know it definitely used to be run this way (e.g. all the problems with Terry Nation and the Daleks) I would have assumed the BBC got better at writing the contracts now they have a better understanding of how TV works in a modern internet era?

Darkflame wrote:I enjoyed that epp. Not quite sure about the whole ghost/not ghost thing, seeing as that feels like it comes up a lot. Still worked well enough for me so far, but as before, a lot depends on the resolution.

I also note one of them didn't see the writing.


Not only that, but didn't the deaf commander actively prevent him from going on board the ship to read the writing?

This is the problem with Steven Moffat shows - you start picking apart every individual word in case it has some bigger meaning, when it'll probably end up being just some random throwaway moment that they'll never refer to again ;)
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Robo4900 » 06 Oct 2015, 02:42

tbug wrote:That said, I'm still hoping Ian shows up at least once.

Ever since they introduced the school, this is something I have wanted.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 06 Oct 2015, 03:06

7SecondsLeft wrote:
This is the problem with Steven Moffat shows - you start picking apart every individual word in case it has some bigger meaning, when it'll probably end up being just some random throwaway moment that they'll never refer to again ;)


Like the Omega theory.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Master Gunner » 06 Oct 2015, 05:57

7SecondsLeft wrote:
tbug wrote:Each episode pays money to whichever writer created a character appearing in that episode. This isn't the same thing as having the rights to that character, but it is financial incentive to make sure that you create all your main characters.


That's interesting, I didn't realise the writers still got residuals for characters they create. Steven Moffat has said in interviews about the issues of using characters from the Russell T Davies era, but I'd always read that to mean they were tied to the old production team, not to the writers themselves.


On Star Trek Voyager, Tom Paris's character was supposed to be a character the same actor played on TNG. One of the reasons the name was changed but basically everything else about the character stayed the same was to avoid paying residuals to the writer of that TNG episode.

I'm guessing it's more a matter of union agreements than the BBC's own contracts - they may not have any choice in the matter.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Elomin Sha » 06 Oct 2015, 06:44

That Star Trek residuals is true for the books too with created characters not appearing in other books.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby tbug » 06 Oct 2015, 07:16

All of this is true, and none of it means that other characters can't appear; it's just that there's an incentive for the main characters to be original.

Besides, with it not airing until 2017 the current crop of students will probably have graduated.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Master Gunner » 06 Oct 2015, 08:04

Elomin Sha wrote:That Star Trek residuals is true for the books too with created characters not appearing in other books.


What about books using one-off characters from the show? I wonder how much Peter David would have lost to paying residuals, considering his Star Trek books are almost entirely populated by guest characters from the various series.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby tbug » 06 Oct 2015, 08:17

If I understand correctly, using a character in a book gives the character's creator a tiny amount of money. Enough that you'd have to declare it on your taxes, but not enough to ever affect your tax bracket. I expect that Peter David cares more about the story than the small amount of novel residuals. He was a fan before he wrote books for the show, if memory serves me right.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 10 Oct 2015, 12:23

Liked!

Next one looks more whimsical. So, don't expect Arya master assassin.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby 7SecondsLeft » 10 Oct 2015, 20:09

Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:Liked!

Indeed, excellent. Cutting the sound as we follow the deaf commander was a really nice way of ramping up the creepyness, and loved Clara getting called out again - that's definitely a recurring theme! And The Fisher King was a great character, would be nice to see more of them (whatever they are) later.

The ending felt a bit too wibbly wobbly timey wimey though, and I'm sure it won't stand up to much scrutiny (What happened to 30 mins earlier Doctor - Did he die in the flood? How did other blokey get back to the current time if the Doctor had to use the pod to escape? How did the hologram show up in the chamber if it was controlled by the magic glasses?) but overall an excellent two parter :)

Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:Next one looks more whimsical. So, don't expect Arya master assassin.

I'd say "Whimsical with a dark twist", perhaps? Shame they didn't find a more modern character for Maisie to play though instead of more medieval-style - maybe they were trying to attract the GoT audience without scaring them with too much sci-fi?
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 11 Oct 2015, 01:47

7SecondsLeft wrote:
The ending felt a bit too wibbly wobbly timey wimey though, and I'm sure it won't stand up to much scrutiny (What happened to 30 mins earlier Doctor - Did he die in the flood? How did other blokey get back to the current time if the Doctor had to use the pod to escape? How did the hologram show up in the chamber if it was controlled by the magic glasses?) but overall an excellent two parter :)


He traveled in the Tardis back 30 minutes. I believe The Doctor wasn't breaking time at all. He was fulfilling what has always been in place. Blokey escaped by being told to wait in the Tardis and listening because he saw his love interest die from ignoring the Doctor.
How did the hologram open the chamber. Why open the chamber? Only explanation was because it always did this. But why? I understand in spur of the moment it makes it look like a real ghost to everyone. Shrug.

I felt like the physical Fisherking was slightly underused. But his plan certainly wasn't. He is certainly one of the most sadistic villains so far.

I felt the second half felt like what Cold War should have felt like. You were not sure who'd die and live (Clara and Doctor would survive, but you didn't know if the rest of the crew would survive or not). I thought it was a nice twist that Cass felt the axe coming and dodging instead of perishing. Apparently in other horror media, the deaf person is the red shirt.

I thought it was really chilling how the ghosts of people who died in the past in real-time would appear in the underwater time. Like from Clara, Cass and Dude's point of view, they could see how Doctor and Two people were doing, with dread.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby 7SecondsLeft » 11 Oct 2015, 07:07

Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:He traveled in the Tardis back 30 minutes. I believe The Doctor wasn't breaking time at all. He was fulfilling what has always been in place. Blokey escaped by being told to wait in the Tardis and listening because he saw his love interest die from ignoring the Doctor.


Yeah, but... How did the Tardis make its way back to current time? Blokey couldn't have flown it, and the Doctor was in the pod at the time. Or is "magic homing beacon" another one of those "sssh, don't ask" plot device features that the Tardis has? The doctor consistently shows that he has so little control over the Tardis, that it's a bit of a coin flip if it gets to the right place even with him in it!

Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:I felt like the physical Fisherking was slightly underused. But his plan certainly wasn't. He is certainly one of the most sadistic villains so far.


Agree with this and the rest of your post. And I know I said I hope they use the character again, this is of course under the condition that they don't do a Weeping Angel and go all "OMFG! It's! The! Statue! Of! Liberty!" with it ;)
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 11 Oct 2015, 09:49

It's a thing which was used in finale of season 1 with Rose and the Matt's regeneration.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Darkflame » 12 Oct 2015, 13:52

Umm pretty sure it was explicitly shown that the Tardis
triggered some emergency return function. We had a alert going of, and the airplane like "put your trays in the upright position" thing. Then it cut.
I assumed it detected the huge mass of water going at it fast. Although you could still argue how did it know when/where to return too but maybe thats just the last valid place it was?.


Anyway, pretty fun epp still, but the I thought the holograms was just stretched a bit too far. If his glasses can do that its a bit TOO usefull as almost every situation can now be "oh, they were holograms".
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Robo4900 » 12 Oct 2015, 17:32

Additionally, the Doctor could have preset the controls to go back when the flood came in.

As for the holograms thing, wasn't that something backed up by the base computer, which was how the ghost Doctor opened the cage?
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby 7SecondsLeft » 13 Oct 2015, 00:16

Darkflame wrote:Umm pretty sure it was explicitly shown that the Tardis
triggered some emergency return function. We had a alert going of, and the airplane like "put your trays in the upright position" thing. Then it cut.
I assumed it detected the huge mass of water going at it fast. Although you could still argue how did it know when/where to return too but maybe thats just the last valid place it was?.


Of course you're right, I'd completely forgotten about that scene, my mistake. I just remembered being surprised to see blokey back at the end.

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