Crusader Kings II (and General Paradox Thread)

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

I'm really enjoying it. And the new DLC Conquest of Paradise will bring a randomised Americas, which will be a cool new addition.

If you liked CK II then I'm sure you'll like EUIV. And if you never played CK II, but like strategy games, then this is one of the best ones out there.

[Prospero101]

So...I'm in a bit of a weird spot when it comes to grand strategy. My only previous experience with it is Civilization. While I deeply enjoyed Civ V, especially with Brave New World, I soon found I was basically winning the same ways every time. I wanted something a bit deeper.

So that's why I got a code for Crusader Kings II when it was offered during the Steam sale. But holy FUCK is it complicated. Civ V feels like the kiddie pool compared to this. Anybody have a recommendation for mitigating this brick wall of a learning curve?

[plummeting_sloth]

So you're saying they've integrated more Crusader Kings things into the Europa gameplay. Interesting indeed.

[My pseudonym is Ix]

So...I'm in a bit of a weird spot when it comes to grand strategy. My only previous experience with it is Civilization. While I deeply enjoyed Civ V, especially with Brave New World, I soon found I was basically winning the same ways every time. I wanted something a bit deeper.

So that's why I got a code for Crusader Kings II when it was offered during the Steam sale. But holy FUCK is it complicated. Civ V feels like the kiddie pool compared to this. Anybody have a recommendation for mitigating this brick wall of a learning curve?

Start off small; the standard opening is to become one of the Irish lords, since you'll be small but independent, which simplifies all the politics. Secondly, do a bit of admin: marry off your children/yourself (although you might want to leave daughters alone, as an ambitious AI could then declare war on you), go into your council screen and elect the best people for the job (good chance they'll be there already, but ho hum), assign all of your councillors to do something, pick a safe, unadventurous ambition... this kind of stuff you get used to doing at the start of a campaign. Then, on the subject of actually doing things, pick someone to declare war on: if you want you can go on the safe side, save up some money and hire some mercenaries (bear in mind that mercenaries have expensive upkeep, so always overdo things on the money-raising front), or just go straight in on anyone you have a claim on. Keep in mind that you can't declare war on anyone whilst you have raised levies, so you'll have to stand your men down before declaring war. If you don't have a claim, send your chancellor into a nearby and suitably weak province (if you click on the thing and hover over the two little bars underneath the main holding, it should tell you how big its levy is and roughly what you're up against) and tell him to fabricate a claim: this is also expensive, so you'll want to save up whilst waiting for him to succeed. If you manage to expand, congratulations- you've got the simplest bits of CK2 gameplay locked down and progressing from there is a slow, steady business. You'll quickly learn how to manage the mood of unruly vassals.

Oh, and one other thing- don't worry about upgrading any buildings until you're making at least 9 or 10 gold per month. Simpler that way. And if your vassals keep rebelling every time you die... well drop back here and we'll have the argument about succession laws.

[Prospero101]

Good lord, Ix. And this is the simple way of doing it?

[My pseudonym is Ix]

No, this is just all the tutorial they should have included compressed into text form. This game's lack of tutorial is its only serious flaw.

Also, this is medieval politics. Shit's gettin REAL.

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

So you're saying they've integrated more Crusader Kings things into the Europa gameplay. Interesting indeed.

Not exactly, it's that they run on the same engine (although I think EUIV runs an updated version of the engine) and the fact they are both complex strategy games with almost unique way the game plays out every time.

So basically they are two very different games in terms of content, but very similar in style.

Anybody have a recommendation for mitigating this brick wall of a learning curve?

If you want some more advice:

-Don't worry about losing power, unless you're lucky, you'll often find yourself being deposed multiple times. This is a game where it is hard to 'win' all the time.

-Marry, Marry, Marry. Marriages are perhaps the best way to get more power. You'll be surprised how many times one of my distant nephews becomes a King of somewhere when I started off as a count. Always try to marry Princesses or Princes (even if they are way down the line of succession) since you never know when a mass outbreak of plague or stabinthebackalitus takes hold.

-Stay neutral until you can side with the winner. Essentially during civil wars wait until you decide to rebel. If the rebels are crushed and you stayed loyal, you may find yourself rewarded with a nice new county or duchy. If it seems your lord is going to suffer badly, maybe this is the time to get some power for yourself. Remember that you can always swear fealty back to the eventual winner.

-You can always hire better advisers. If you find the 'search people' button (nestled in the bottom right corner if I remember correctly) filter your search to Male, Non-Titled, My Religion, Unmarried. Then you can find people with high stats and then invite them to your court. This is especially good to find leaders for your retinues (you'll be surprised how many times a character with high military can turn a battle). Doing this may require a few bribes, but if you're a king or have a lot of money, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Also, check before hand their relationship with their current overlord. If it is too high, they won't join you. So preferably find ones with a negative value.

-Build economic buildings first. This way you can get a higher influx of coins faster.

-Always set taxes high for churches and towns. Another way to get more coins faster.

-Set levies to low for churches and towns, this is a good way to counter-act the negative opinions you get above, and early in the game the difference in troops from max to lowest isn't that much.

-Try and fight wars with your own troops. Sometimes you have to raise the levies of your vassals, but unless you're an unreformed pagan you get a penalty for doing this. This is a good way of keeping your vassals happy. So if you can win a war with your own levies and retinues, try and do that.


If you have any other questions/problems, just post them here and we'll try and help you.

[My pseudonym is Ix]

-Don't worry about losing power, unless you're lucky, you'll often find yourself being deposed multiple times. This is a game where it is hard to 'win' all the time.

Strange, I almost never get deposed. I'm good at keeping my vassals at least reasonably in check, even if you've given me a lot of things to bear in mind.

[Prospero101]

*whistles* I'm in the big leagues now, aren't I. Thanks for the help, guys.

*hums* In olden days, a glimpse of stocking was looked on as something shocking, now heaven knows...

[My pseudonym is Ix]

So I mentioned over on the General Chat thread the idea of me doing a little casual streaming of a fresh CKII game, partly to give me some practice at being calm whilst mic'd up and having people sort of listening, but also to make up for the near-total lack of tutorial this game has and to be a sort of introduction to the game for newbies. I haven't followed through with the idea as yet, and I'm not sure how much free time I'd have in the long run to play with it, but... honestly, do you guys think it would be a good idea? Not necessarily would you watch it, but... OK, essentially I'm looking for external validation of the idea.

What y'all think?

[PlasmaCow]

Having never personally hunted around youtube or twitch for tutorial guides to CKII, I can't really comment on necessity, but certainly see no harm, after all different people play the game in quite different ways and styles anyway.

[Phailhammer]

I'm considering recording some CKII stuff, particularly because of a mod I've downloaded. I've started a new campaign to unite Ireland, this time as the actual King of Eire; the title exists in 867 in this mod, though it's restricted to lands in the north and one central county.

[Smeghead]

Prospero101, there are several good youtube tutorials of the game. Look them up and it should help you understand the game much better.

So, Conquest of Paradise comes out in a few hours

[PlasmaCow]

EU4 is on the Humble Store for $20 just now for anyone that's interested.
https://www.humblebundle.com/store/p/eu ... storefront

The Dev diary vid for the randomised Americas was good to finally see, being shown plenty examples of the randomness and intelligence of the system their using for it makes me very interested in it - especially the idea that such a thing could end up being rolled out eventually to make a fully randomised globe or even the option for a randomised Europe in CK2 or 3 (whenever that appears).

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

The random world generator is cool, but a bit broken. One continent had around 10-15 river estuary bonuses in one colonial area, giving a ridiculous boost to trade power. Plus the fact that you can get seas called "Lake Superior" or pieces of land called "Gallepogos Islands" needs to be fixed.

However, the new colony system is great, especially as you are able to name the new nation. So New Lemononia, Grahamstarkia and The Republic of LRR can now be formed.

[My pseudonym is Ix]

GLORY TO NEW ARSTOTZKA!!!

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

If they made converted saves over to Victoria II, then you would have to make New Arstotzka a super communist state.

[Phailhammer]

Or switch it to Bureaucratic Despotism.

Edit: I'm thinking of recording a bit of gameplay for CKII. Would anyone be interested in watching that. I promise not to screw up too badly...I hope.

[My pseudonym is Ix]

Go for it, we can spam you with insults/constructive criticism afterwards

[Phailhammer]

I think of assassins...

[goatprince]

I think there's a couple good let's plays of the series in the lp archive if there's still issues with learning about some of the more esoteric parts of the game. I think there's even one that spans the entire series as one country, importing saves from game to game. (I think the country was Jerusalem)

[Smeghead]

Something is coming

[Smeghead]

I think there's a couple good let's plays of the series in the lp archive if there's still issues with learning about some of the more esoteric parts of the game. I think there's even one that spans the entire series as one country, importing saves from game to game. (I think the country was Jerusalem)

I've been following a few multiplayer LPs by Arumba and Northernerlion (it got featured on PDS' front-page a few weeks ago)

[Smeghead]

As for the expansions, Crusader Kings 2 is getting Rise of India, which, as you might expect, expands the map. With India included, the game's map becomes 50% bigger, incorporating an extra 300+ provinces

Source

[PlasmaCow]

Your quote has spell-checked Rajas to Rise. Although both would be valid titles for the expansion. Anyhow, very exciting stuff!