Standard Discussion

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
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Tinfish
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Tinfish » 21 Mar 2016, 13:31

Phi wrote:Tinfish, the link to your deckist is not working.

I eventually decided to go Esper instead of Grixis, since the new Sorin is just so good for control. This is the list I came up with:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dragons-over-innistrad/

I was wandering if the new vindicate is good here or not. While I think the card itself is good, I don't think it suits a deck that wants to go to the long game and possibly take a bit more damage than usual along the way. Also, I am considering whether it is feasible to be able to case Grasp of Darkness on tun 2, and so far I think no.

Your deck looks oppressive and mean and I don't want to fight it. I'd worry, however, that you have a lot of "reveal a dragon" cards and not so many dragons to power them.

Odd that the deck list isn't working for you. It is:

4x Cliffhaven Vampire
4x Drana's Emissary
4x Felidar Sovereign
4x Grasp of Darkness
4x Kalastria Healer
4x Oblivion Strike
4x Ondu War Cleric
10x Plains
4x Serene Steward
10x Swamp
4x Tandem Tactics
4x Vampire Envoy
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fantôme
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 21 Mar 2016, 16:34

B/W lifegain has some really interesting cards coming up in SoI: Pious Evangel & Call the Bloodline. Adding a sacrificing theme seems really strong with Ayli, Zulaport Cutthroat, Indulgent Aristocrat & Westvale Abbey. And of course there's a new Sorin, if you're so inclined.

Maybe something like:
Click to Expand
4 Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
4 Drana's Emissary
4 Indulgent Aristocrat
3 Kalastria Healer
4 Pious Evangel
3 Serene Steward
4 Vampire Envoy
4 Zulaport Cutthroat
3 Call the Bloodline
3 Anguished Unmaking
1 March from the Tomb
4 Caves of Koilos
7 Plains
4 Shambling Vent
7 Swamp
1 Westvale Abbey
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Tinfish
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Tinfish » 21 Mar 2016, 16:47

I agree the sacrificing thing seems strong, and Ayli is good; but I'm mostly looking to throw something together that's fairly cheap and fairly effective, which largely means no expensive legendaries like Ayli or Sorin (I actually got lucky and opened two Sorins in the Khans prerelease, but my luck has not been replicated since). I'm less looking to crush face and more to just have fun. Which, considering my city is apparently nationally known for a very spiky community, may not be the best plan, but I'm a Timmy at heart.

Though I'd be tempted to get a play set of Drana, Liberator of Malakir for the red/black vampire madness aggro deck. She seems like she'd be really strong in that archetype.
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Phi
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Phi » 21 Mar 2016, 23:42

Tinfish wrote:
Phi wrote:Tinfish, the link to your deckist is not working.

I eventually decided to go Esper instead of Grixis, since the new Sorin is just so good for control. This is the list I came up with:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dragons-over-innistrad/

I was wandering if the new vindicate is good here or not. While I think the card itself is good, I don't think it suits a deck that wants to go to the long game and possibly take a bit more damage than usual along the way. Also, I am considering whether it is feasible to be able to case Grasp of Darkness on tun 2, and so far I think no.

Your deck looks oppressive and mean and I don't want to fight it. I'd worry, however, that you have a lot of "reveal a dragon" cards and not so many dragons to power them.

Odd that the deck list isn't working for you. It is:

4x Cliffhaven Vampire
4x Drana's Emissary
4x Felidar Sovereign
4x Grasp of Darkness
4x Kalastria Healer
4x Oblivion Strike
4x Ondu War Cleric
10x Plains
4x Serene Steward
10x Swamp
4x Tandem Tactics
4x Vampire Envoy

I think you want more than 20 lands if you want to reach 6 mana. I would also add the new WB tapland. I also think Oblivion Stike is rather expensive, and maybe Grasp of Darkness and Ultimate Price (/To The Slaughter or Ruinous Path for planeswalkers) is a better option. Also, Ayli.

As for my deck, I ran 3x Scorn and Invocation with 3-4 Silumgars this season and didn't have trouble with the activation, so 4 for 5 dragons seems alright to me.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 22 Mar 2016, 02:13

Phi wrote:Tinfish, the link to your deckist is not working.

I eventually decided to go Esper instead of Grixis, since the new Sorin is just so good for control. This is the list I came up with:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dragons-over-innistrad/

I was wandering if the new vindicate is good here or not. While I think the card itself is good, I don't think it suits a deck that wants to go to the long game and possibly take a bit more damage than usual along the way. Also, I am considering whether it is feasible to be able to case Grasp of Darkness on tun 2, and so far I think no.


Ultimate price doesn't hit devoid creatures, and there are most certainly decks out there running just Eldrazi - might be worth moving to sideboard, perhaps replacing with Declaration in Stone.

I had 4x Flaying Tendrils in my sideboard last Friday, and found that the tokens decks were able to anthem out of Tendrils range pretty quickly. There's more anthems on the way in SoI, maybe consider just all Languish.

Anguished Unmaking: so occasionally you might want to target an artifact or enchantment with it, but generally the card's closest comparison is to Ruinous Path - and the difference is instant vs. sorcery. Personally I think instant speed is absolutely worth the 3 life, nothing ruins your plans like a control deck responding to the stack, and keeping your options open with regards to available mana each turn round is always preferable.

Edit: also Myth Realized was always really good in Esper control.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby chetoos » 24 Mar 2016, 21:04

Here's the current decklist for my UW investigate deck:
4x daring sleuth
3x thraben investigator
3x bygone bishop
3x thing in the ice
3x thalia's lieutenant
2x tamiyo's journal
4x ojutai's breath
4x awaken unsummon (I forgot the name)
4x awaken cancel (I also forgot this name)
4x angelic purge
4x trail of evidence
22x lands
If they spoil the card that wins you the game with 13 clue tokens, then I'll take out 1 ojutai's breath for it. Other than that, what do you think?
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Tinfish
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Tinfish » 24 Mar 2016, 21:11

Honestly, I think the only deck that really wants to pursue Investigate is a blue/green one with all the green creatures that do things when you investigate. Drawing cards is fine, but without something that counts how many artifacts you have, or the hypothetical 13-clue wincon, it seems like you're accumulating incidental card draw opportunity for no real value.

In short, Investigate feels too durdley to me to prioritize so heavily without some form of payoff.
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fantôme
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 25 Mar 2016, 02:46

I agree that Green has the best uses of Investigate, with Tireless Tracker and Ulvenwald Mysteries - the latter in particular is excellent with Thalia's Lieutenant.

And if you're in Blue and playing Thalia's Lieutenant, consider Mirror Mockery: enchant TL, and every time she attacks she gets two +1/+1 counters and all your other humans get one.

Edit: two things I've been tinkering with that I think will be fun,
G/B Delirium: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/psychotrope/
and U/W Humans: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/vanity-2/

All comments/suggestions/ridicule/deckname-puns welcome.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby chetoos » 25 Mar 2016, 06:09

I guess my win con in this deck is really the thing in the ice, but I really don't want to give up white, and I feel that I'd have to if I put in green, and I don't feel that putting in green makes the deck that great. I'll try it against a UG investigate deck, I guess, but I like the white. And I normally play green!
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 25 Mar 2016, 07:02

fantôme wrote:and U/W Humans: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/vanity-2/

All comments/suggestions/ridicule/deckname-puns welcome.


Does this U/W humans deck want Kytheon? I think in general you want 4-8 one drops just for early pressure and to have somewhere to put the counters for the turn 2 Lieutenant. Also, maybe slip through space could be better than anticipate as a way to push your Graceblade Artisan through blockers. Neat deck though! makes me miss the Theros UW heroic deck.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 25 Mar 2016, 07:30

square1 wrote:
fantôme wrote:and U/W Humans: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/vanity-2/

All comments/suggestions/ridicule/deckname-puns welcome.


Does this U/W humans deck want Kytheon? I think in general you want 4-8 one drops just for early pressure and to have somewhere to put the counters for the turn 2 Lieutenant. Also, maybe slip through space could be better than anticipate as a way to push your Graceblade Artisan through blockers. Neat deck though! makes me miss the Theros UW heroic deck.


One-drops would certainly make sense, I do like Kytheon if I go slightly heavier into creatures. But... with the new spoilers out today, Essence Flux makes me want to take the deck back towards Spirit tribal, (Rattlechains, Topplegeist, etc.).

chetoos: loads of new Investigate stuff, any combination of W/U/G seems to have potential, maybe all three?
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 25 Mar 2016, 08:06

Confront the Unknown recalls Aspect of Hydra and could be powerful.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 26 Mar 2016, 01:13

There's already a dozen decks I want to make going forward into SoI, but U/W spirits is exactly the kind of annoying little tempo deck I love to play: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/peppers-ghost/
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 26 Mar 2016, 08:10

fantôme wrote:There's already a dozen decks I want to make going forward into SoI, but U/W spirits is exactly the kind of annoying little tempo deck I love to play: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/peppers-ghost/


That is a fantastic deck name. Bravo :) I like the idea of pairing turn 1 and 2 evasive creatures with the Invocation too. That's a quick clock.

And yea, I'm super torn over what to first try playing. So many exciting archetypes. RB Madness Vampires seems like the obvious super aggro deck and tribal decks like RG wolves, GW/Bant Humans, or GB/UB zombies all seem exciting. And there's probably a cool WB deck with the new Sorin. And I think there could be a really interesting UR deck using Harness the Storm, Geistblast and some prowess creatures.

The deck to beat will be some kind of Eldrazi Ramp, so important to make sure you don't just lose to turn 3 Kozilek's Return and have some way to disrupt them long enough to win, cause nothing you do is gonna be as strong as a turn 6 or 7 Ulamog or a turn 5 Worldbreaker. Makes white much more appealing with its exile removal and creatures with 3+ toughness a lot better than 2 or 1.

Just my initial thoughts. Probably gonna do some brewing today and tomorrow :)
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Ladsworld » 26 Mar 2016, 12:44

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/26-03-16 ... dangerous/
A R/W equipment deck I brewed up. We got a good amount of Equipment support in SOI, so it seemed obvious to me.
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Tinfish
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Tinfish » 26 Mar 2016, 20:22

After seeing Jimmy Wong's green/white deck I kinda want to make blue/green investigate a thing, but I'm really not sure if it's fast enough; it seems like there's a lot of fast, evasive creatures and you'd have trouble slowing down the game enough to get all the green cares-about-clues cards to cook off.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby fantôme » 30 Mar 2016, 14:29

Tinfish wrote:After seeing Jimmy Wong's green/white deck I kinda want to make blue/green investigate a thing, but I'm really not sure if it's fast enough; it seems like there's a lot of fast, evasive creatures and you'd have trouble slowing down the game enough to get all the green cares-about-clues cards to cook off.


Clue decks do seem like a lot of fun. And it isn't just green: blue has Fleeting Memories, which could be interesting with Sphinx's Tutelage. There might actually be a U/R mill deck with big Chandra, Fevered Visions & Vessel of Paramnesia. But I'm not sure what other clue cards would work here.

But most of the builds are indeed quite slow. I feel like the best version of a clue deck might be in G/W humans: where there are singularly excellent creatures (Den Protector, Hidden Dragonslayer), a fantastic lord (Thalia's Lieutenant), and some of the best clue-makers fit right in (Bygone Bishop, Tireless Tracker, Ulvenwald Mysteries).

Edit: possibly interested in building a ramp deck at some point, what do you guys think about - more copies of Cryptolith Rite to improve consistency vs. fewer copies of Cryptolith Rite to reduce the potential for the redundancy of drawing multiple copies?
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby BarcodeReader » 02 Apr 2016, 03:31

Just finished cooking up an absolutely *ludicrous* U/G Clue deck, with Tamiyo's Journal as the all star.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/my-handy-dandy-notebook/
So the idea is that you play the erdwal illuminator t2, tireless tracker t3, briarbridge patrol t4, and journal t5, then sacking 3 of your 4-6 clues to it on opps second main, searching for atarka or ulamog or some other unfair garbage, and have it come in for free on your opponents end step.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby chetoos » 02 Apr 2016, 07:20

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/today-we-declare-our-independence-day/
I changed up my UW clue deck when it became clear that it worked much better as a human beatdown deck. What do you think? Is there anything immensely pressing in G that I need to switch over to bant, or is it good as is?
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square1
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 03 Apr 2016, 18:53

I built my own version of the Clue deck, UG splashing W for Reflector Mage. I'm going for more of a beatdown combo, using Confront the Unknown as a replacement for Aspect of Hydra to make a lethal Den Protector or Erdwal Illuminator. Illuminator plus ongoing investigation produces clues incredibly quickly.

Click to Expand
Creature (26)
4x Bounding Krasis
2x Daring Sleuth
4x Deathmist Raptor
4x Den Protector
4x Erdwal Illuminator
4x Reflector Mage
4x Tireless Tracker

Land (24)
4x Canopy Vista
6x Forest
4x Island
4x Lumbering Falls
4x Port Town
2x Prairie Stream

Enchantment (6)
4x Ongoing Investigation
2x Ulvenwald Mysteries

Instant (4)
4x Confront the Unknown



Also working on a more conventional Jund deck using Olivia and Collected Company. The Collected Company s do make for some powerful plays in combination with Olivia's ability to give haste to the creatures as they come down, letting you put 6 mana worth of haste creatures in on turn 4 in theory and swing.

Click to Expand
Land (25)
2x Cinder Glade
3x Foreboding Ruins
4x Forest
4x Game Trail
2x Hissing Quagmire
3x Mountain
3x Smoldering Marsh
4x Swamp

Creature (25)
4x Asylum Visitor
4x Deathmist Raptor
4x Den Protector
3x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
4x Heir of Falkenrath
4x Olivia, Mobilized for War
2x Sylvan Advocate

Instant (6)
4x Collected Company
2x Kolaghan's Command

Planeswalker (4)
4x Arlinn Kord


My local meta has been nothing but RG and UG Ramp for a while, so I'm expecting a lot of that initially and I'm terrified of playing any deck that can't win before turn 6 when the World Breakers start raining down.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby Lycodrake » 06 Apr 2016, 16:04

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gw-legen ... -midrange/
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the- ... y-midrange

I'm at a loss for where to ask for advice in regards to this deck, nowadays. I even changed the name to be a little bit more "here's the archetype". Do any of you who regularly play Standard know of any improvements I could make to the decklist?

Please and thank you. ;u;
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby chetoos » 06 Apr 2016, 18:16

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/today-we ... dence-day/
I made this deck originally as a clue based deck, then as a human tribal deck when I realized that mirror mockery on a thalia's lieutenant is amazing, but now I realize that the daring sleuth is nearly useless without more clue tokens, so I want to replace him, but I don't know which to replace him with:
Kytheon, hero of akros or Consul's lieutenant
I'm not going to make this deck for real any time soon, but I don't want to put in a card that's just ridiculously outside my price range, so depending on how much Kytheon is, even if he's just so much better, I'd probably go with the lieutenant.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 07 Apr 2016, 06:45

chetoos wrote:http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/today-we ... dence-day/
I made this deck originally as a clue based deck, then as a human tribal deck when I realized that mirror mockery on a thalia's lieutenant is amazing, but now I realize that the daring sleuth is nearly useless without more clue tokens, so I want to replace him, but I don't know which to replace him with:
Kytheon, hero of akros or Consul's lieutenant
I'm not going to make this deck for real any time soon, but I don't want to put in a card that's just ridiculously outside my price range, so depending on how much Kytheon is, even if he's just so much better, I'd probably go with the lieutenant.


Scatter to the Winds seems a bit too reactive for this kind of aggressive weenie deck. Declaration in Stone if you can get them or something like Expose Evil help push through your attackers and end the game quickly.
Kytheon is currently about $5. He's about the cheapest of the flip walkers from Origins. Chandra fluctuates a bit.
If you're doing UW humans I'd recommend Reflector Mage. Also gives you another target for Mirror Mockery.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby square1 » 07 Apr 2016, 06:51

Lycodrake wrote:http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gw-legen ... -midrange/
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the- ... y-midrange

I'm at a loss for where to ask for advice in regards to this deck, nowadays. I even changed the name to be a little bit more "here's the archetype". Do any of you who regularly play Standard know of any improvements I could make to the decklist?

Please and thank you. ;u;


Much as I love Dromoka's Command, I think you might be better off with more Silk Wrap/ Stasis Snare in this deck. Your creatures are all so expensive, you can't really take advantage of playing a creature and the using Command, which means it's stuck in your hand whenever the opponent doesn't let you untap with a creature in play. Since you're also trying to ramp up, more early removal like those two or Declaration in Stone will let you stay alive long enough to get your big spells in play.
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Re: Standard Discussion

Postby chetoos » 07 Apr 2016, 07:27

square1 wrote:
chetoos wrote:http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/today-we-declare-our-independence-day/
I made this deck originally as a clue based deck, then as a human tribal deck when I realized that mirror mockery on a thalia's lieutenant is amazing, but now I realize that the daring sleuth is nearly useless without more clue tokens, so I want to replace him, but I don't know which to replace him with:
Kytheon, hero of akros or Consul's lieutenant
I'm not going to make this deck for real any time soon, but I don't want to put in a card that's just ridiculously outside my price range, so depending on how much Kytheon is, even if he's just so much better, I'd probably go with the lieutenant.


Scatter to the Winds seems a bit too reactive for this kind of aggressive weenie deck. Declaration in Stone if you can get them or something like Expose Evil help push through your attackers and end the game quickly.
Kytheon is currently about $5. He's about the cheapest of the flip walkers from Origins. Chandra fluctuates a bit.
If you're doing UW humans I'd recommend Reflector Mage. Also gives you another target for Mirror Mockery.

I considered him, but I think the lower curve is a good thing in this deck, and I don't know what I'd take out. Maybe the consul's lieutenant. I'd have to test it.
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