Let's NOPE pre-voting

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Dominic Appleguard
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby Dominic Appleguard » 21 Aug 2014, 18:04

I think Alex loves resource management, if you're using the phrase the way I think you are.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby TStodden » 22 Aug 2014, 01:36

I don't know if this is Let's Nope material (or Book of Passwords), but the remastered version of Shadowgate just came out on PC / Steam & definitely has some scary (intense) moments that are extracted from the rooms (compared to the NES version that we're familiar with) while keeping the same unforgivingness for mistakes (as stupid deaths are still very possible).

To wrangle in my post... I'd have to recommend Perfect Darkness as well since that game actually started to call me out while playing it... but having the perfect atmosphere (the cliché "dark & stormy night") readily does enhance the game.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby pokute » 24 Aug 2014, 12:05

A note on P.T. that it is supposed to be a teaser, as in part of a marketing campaign. Some of the later puzzles are intentionally very obscure. When I first heard about it, I figured there'd be some sort of ARG tie-in after a few months that would help people solve the puzzles and keep the buzz going, but that turned out to be unnecessary.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby HatchetCats » 26 Aug 2014, 00:40

If I could recommend any game it would be 5 Nights at Freddie's. One of my friends screamed so loud we heard her in the next building over.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby Volafortis » 27 Aug 2014, 19:36

Yeah, I just bought Five Nights at Freddy's, and shit, that's terrifying. It's theoretically short, but I think he'll get plenty of restarts out of it.

It's horror in the same vein as SCP Containment Breach, but the execution is much better.

My experiences with it:
Click to Expand
I'm.... stuck on Night 2. Nope. Just Nope. Nope nope nope. NOPE. NOOOOOPPPE. FUCK THIS RABBIT HAS BEEN AT THE DOOR THIS WHOLE DAMN TIME, AND NOW THE CHICKEN IS COMING TO THE OTHER ONE, AND THE FOX IS COMING OUT, AND I'VE ONLY GOT 15% POWER LEFT, AND THIS IS SUPPOSED TO LAST THE REST OF THE NIGHT? IT'S ONLY 4AM, FFS.

...and there goes the power. ohai Freddy, plz dun mash me inside your robot suit. NO FREDDY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby Kapol » 28 Aug 2014, 01:36

Freddy. Freddy plz. Plz.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby ch3m1kal » 28 Aug 2014, 02:27

I don't quite get Five Nights at Freddy's.
It's basically just staring at a couple of jpegs for 5 minutes and then a predictable jump scare.

It's an interesting concept at least, I'll give it that.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby Dominic Appleguard » 28 Aug 2014, 07:34

The fear, I think, comes from the fact that you can only look in one place at once, and since your power is limited you can't even do that; you're obliged to spend some amount of time with the lights, cameras and doors off. I haven't played it, but it looks to me like they understand, more than other horror devs, the power of the player's paranoia/imagination to provide the tension. The sight of a bug-eyed robot monster is unsettling, but much more effective is the knowledge that any of the other ones could be on the move when you're not looking.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby Kapol » 28 Aug 2014, 13:28

Pretty much what I was going to say. So now I'm going to rant a bit on the reasons why I think it's effective horror. As a side-note to that before I begin though, they utterly failed at marketing it beyond people actually playing it. The picture with freddy and the two mechanical skeletons? Not scary. The images by themselves? Not scary. The game doesn't do a very good job by itself on showing why it's scary. Mostly because, unlike a lot of other horror games, it's horror is very much tied into the main game mechanics. I think that's part of the reason it doesn't translate as well to Let's Plays as well.

Now then, to rant:

Click to Expand
Pretty much all of the horror of this game (at least in-game) is based on the basic gameplay. The gameplay is structured in a way that you have limited resources, and have to deal with active threats that will kill you if they reach you. Everything you do takes up power. The more stuff you do at once, the more power you drain. And once you run out... well, you're not dead. If you 'play dead' (aka don't move), you can buy yourself some time if you're close to reaching 6AM and finishing the level. I've seen it happen quite a few times.

So you're working on a limited resource. Which isn't that uncommon for a horror game. But what this game does well is that it's constantly letting you know how much you have left. That sounds like a good thing. And to a degree, it is. But it gives you the constant feeling of 'oh shit, I'm not going to make it.' When it's 2AM and you're at 54% power, you're feeling pretty bad.

Those help to give you the feeling of constant paranoia. Which is one of the reason that the game works so well. There are no real set 'jump scares.' Seeing the things on the monitors or in the room next to you isn't really that creepy. It's the knowledge that it's only if you screw up that they'll get in the room and kill you. On top of that, the game does a good job of getting you when you think you're doing well. If you're already jumpy and more active, you're not as likely to get killed cause you're paying attention. If you stop paying attention, the game WILL punish you for it.

To a degree, this is helped by the fact that situations are kind of RNG'd. It's possible to get hit by the golden or Foxy night 1. It's possible to end up having both the bunny and the chick at your doors, only to be killed for having them both closed too long (which DOES happen). So it's not just 'memorize this strategy, ???, profit.' In fact, some people think the game has an adaptive AI, meaning that you're more likely to get killed by sticking to a pattern than by trying new things.

But the best thing about it is likely the sound design. Take away the audio from most of the games, and it's not that bad. With the audio... well, you hear the footsteps as Foxy runs towards you. Or the clicking that tells you that they're already in the room. Or Freddy's music box. Or... any number of horrible things really. The audio really helps boost the effectiveness of the horror atmosphere and paranoia feel of the game.

And for the story... well, you can play the game without noticing any of the story. But there is a hidden plot to the game that you can learn about. (to paraphrase others) It kind of reads like a Chuck E. Cheese creepypasta. So take with that what you will. I think the story behind everything is pretty well-done, and subtle enough that you can stumble on it. Which I like. There are also a bunch of fan theories and other creepy stuff that I'm not going into to avoid spoiling too much.


With that rant out of the way, I think it's pretty effective horror. It plays on paranoia and fear in a way that I think works well. But I can understand that it certainly doesn't look that scary when you just take a look at it. I also understand that not everyone will find it scary. As someone with paranoia issues already, it really played pretty well on my fears. And it seems to be doing that to a lot of people.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby GDwarf » 28 Aug 2014, 13:52

ch3m1kal wrote:I don't quite get Five Nights at Freddy's.
It's basically just staring at a couple of jpegs for 5 minutes and then a predictable jump scare.

It's an interesting concept at least, I'll give it that.

Major caveat in that I've not played the game, but I think that the fact that you ave agency, but that agency is very limited, is what makes it work. A game in which you have zero control could arguably be scary (see horror movies) but wouldn't really be involving. Meanwhile, a game in which you always have options can't be truly frightening as you never have to worry about consequences.

So what does FNaF do? It gives you control over your fate...and then forces you to think about everything you do. Wrong moves result in death, while correct ones only delay things. There's real horror to be mined from the knowledge that you can save yourself but probably will fail to do so.

It's similar to Amnesia and Silent Hill in that regard, I think.

Mind you, I know people who insist that those two aren't at all scary but who were terrified by Resident Evil titles, so clearly horror is not a universal thing.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby pokute » 28 Aug 2014, 15:25

Five Nights at Freddies is basically made up of uncanny valley, darkness, jump scares, resource management, RNG, and player paranoia. If you're creeped out by animatronics and darkness, then the paranoia kicks in and the game becomes terrifying, but if you're not afraid of those things, the game devolves into a frustrating (due to RNG) resource management game with jump scares and falls flat.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby SohNata » 29 Aug 2014, 10:42

It sounds like one of those games that relies on immersion a little bit, which is always an issue when streaming.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby Mercenary » 29 Aug 2014, 22:56

FEAR series. While you are shooting guns at teh bad gais.

There are some pretty spoopy moments.

@FNAF: Its also a game thats more scary for the person playing since you've got your adrenaline pumping, trying to keep an eye on all the animatronics, Keeping an eye on Foxy, making sure you're braced for any "FUCK ME" jump scares and then you're wondering where's the CHICKEN

WHERES THE CHICKEN. GUYS WHERES THE FREAKING CHICKEN! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Another game thats I think in line with FEAR would be Cry of Fear. Originally a Half life 1 mod now its stand alone and best of all, free. You've got guns but very limited ammo so you're mostly reduced to punching or hitting things with a baton.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby Volafortis » 31 Aug 2014, 00:05

I've never liked horror if you have a weapon. Being able to combat the enemies just breaks any sense of horror.

Making the combat mechanics clunky or ineffectual due to limited ammo or weak weapons just means you're adding a bad game mechanic for the sake of adding combat. So, in my opinion, combat in horror games either ruins the horror, or is needlessly tacking on a mechanic the game doesn't need. Either way, I don't like it.

FEAR is a decent FPS series, but I'd never call it horror. The most you'll get out of it are jump scares.

Dead Space has the same issue for me. No real horror value, just jump scares and gore.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby ch3m1kal » 31 Aug 2014, 01:23

Volafortis wrote:I've never liked horror if you have a weapon. Being able to combat the enemies just breaks any sense of horror.

Making the combat mechanics clunky or ineffectual due to limited ammo or weak weapons just means you're adding a bad game mechanic for the sake of adding combat. So, in my opinion, combat in horror games either ruins the horror, or is needlessly tacking on a mechanic the game doesn't need. Either way, I don't like it.

FEAR is a decent FPS series, but I'd never call it horror. The most you'll get out of it are jump scares.

Dead Space has the same issue for me. No real horror value, just jump scares and gore.


I agree with all of this 100%

The only thing I would add is that jump scares are not really scary. They're just startling. If the game suddenly flashes a picture of a fluffy kitten and makes a loud noise you'll probably be startled, but it's most definitely not scary.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby GDwarf » 31 Aug 2014, 16:47

I think horror with a weapon can work, but you have to still be quite outmatched. I'm not saying you make combat clunky, but make the enemies fast and accurate, say.* Just something so that you can win if you choose to fight them, but it'll take loads of skill to win against more than one at a time, so you're probably better off running or hiding.

Actually, STALKER kinda does that, at least early on, where you have weapons that don't do much damage, and no defensive items and are against enemies that are fast and which can kill you from a distance.


*Big, slow, enemies are usually more frustrating than anything. They're generally fairly easy to avoid, but take forever to actually kill, which means you have to go through five minutes of repetitive gameplay every time you find one, and that's not really fun.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 31 Aug 2014, 17:27

As I understand it, in Alien: Isolation, there are weapons. You can use them; NPCs can use them. But there are consequences...

"Be quiet you idiot!" I want to whisper. It will hear you. And then he does something dumb. He tries to shoot me. So I run away. Into a nearby room. And hide in a locker, peeking out through the slits in the grating.

Then the hissing begins.

It doesn't take long for the Alien to arrive. I struggle to see everything that goes on, but I can hear it. The Alien pounces and tears him to shreds. Then it leaps into the shaft above. The commotion draws another human into the area. Bad move. A few seconds later, the Alien emerges again. Squelch, scream, blood, done for. Then the Alien comes into my room. Thump... thump... thump... hissing, sniffing, searching, hunting. I have a flamethrower, I think. Why not leap out and burn its face off?

But I can't. I'm paralysed with real fear.


Every time that iconic motion tracker makes that dreadful noise I think, you know what, why don't I take this bloody thing on? Why don't I shoot it in the face? Or burn its legs off? That's what I would do in Aliens: Colonial Marines, a game in which the Aliens are as likely to break out into a glitch-fuelled dance as they are tear your head off.

Each time I don't, because with Alien Isolation there's an understanding as instinctive as the Alien's desire to eat your face: guns are a bad idea, and if you fire one you're already dead.


Source

So. Yeah. Weapons in horror games? They can work. But you need to do it right.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby korvys » 31 Aug 2014, 19:34

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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby Kapol » 31 Aug 2014, 20:01

Hey Ash is one of those weird shows where I watched some of it and then I suddenly owned 3 DVDs. Funny how the works.

But yea, I feel like weapons in horror games can work. But they have to be more of a hindrance than a benefit. Like, if you use a weapon, you're 99% more likely to die a worse death. But you might get out of it if you're really good.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby Anatashi » 01 Sep 2014, 07:20

Why not to add 5 nights at freddy's to the list, that game would be awesome for the Let's Nope
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby ritchards » 27 Sep 2014, 20:24

Whelp, Neverending Nightmares is being added to the list...
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby ritchards » 03 Oct 2014, 11:04

Odds on Alex playing Alien Isolation this afternoon?
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 03 Oct 2014, 13:57

I don't think it's out until the 7th.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby SohNata » 03 Oct 2014, 15:06

I think Cam hinted that he may stream it, too.
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Re: Let's NOPE pre-voting

Postby ritchards » 07 Oct 2014, 10:44

Okay, I gots a Steam key for a game for Let's Nope. How best to send it in?

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