Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby theDreamer » 10 Jun 2010, 05:07

I don't even like cherries.

I think part of the issue is people don't realize how expensive stuff is.

They may say "Oh! I support LRR(or a free webcomic, or anything) by buying their stuff! They just made 20 dollars when I bought their shirt!"

But really, they didn't. Cost of materials, and labor, just to make the shirt eats into the profits. Now maybe it's only 10 dollars. And that's barely enough to pay a person for one hour in Ontario to wash dishes.

So while, yes, I'd love to (really, it's on my tiny list of expenses for the summer) buy a shirt and become a walking billboard for my favourite source of internet funnies, I'm fully aware that our shirt buying doesn't pay the bills.

Escapist does.

And Escapist pays THEIR bills through ECP, ads, and their own shirts.

...Speaking of which I wonder if ENN has a shirt now, like the one or two that are Unskippable related...

TO THE ESCAPIST STORE!
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby MattAn » 10 Jun 2010, 06:24

ThrashJazzAssassin wrote:In future give people a heads up, phrase the announcement in the way that makes the most sense - "We are now shooting Rejected ENN stories instead of just writing them up, so we can no longer justify hosting them on our own site; consequently, we've offered them up for inclusion in the Escapist Publisher's Club" - and you could avoid at least some of the bad feeling.

That said, I'm very impressed by how calm and reasonable most people's reactions have been this time around. I honestly expected more people to be annoyed by the lack of warning. Clearly, pizza solves all problems.


Phunny story.. I actually mentioned the "heads up, plox" thing over on the Escapist thread for one of the Rejected ENN's.

Other than that... WHY WAS I NOT INFORMED OF THIS PIZZA PARTY!? I DEMAND... THE SUPER SLICE :shock: ..Of awesome?

*dances eerily out of the thread again, victorious with pizza~*

EDIT: Also, just quickly.. I purposefully made sure I didn't get involved in the arguing this time. I had my minor problem/s with the idea, but I chose a wiser route; actually taking the issue up privately with Jer and Graham. Thanks to both of them, the reasons are quite valid and awesome, but I can STILL see why people would be upset that they're losing yet another extra that the LRR site had to offer. It also bears a reason why most Escapist members won't join this forum. They might LOVE LRR, but if all the extra stuff is going to The Escapist.. Why bother joining here, y'know?

It's also a rather valid reason for why a lot of LRR forum members don't want to go anywhere near the Escapist as a member. Solely to watch the LRR-related videos. But eh.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby GreigKM » 10 Jun 2010, 07:18

Alex Steacy wrote:Escapist News Network - every week - free of charge
Loading Ready Run Sketches - every week - free of charge
Unskippable - every week - free of charge
Crapshots - 3 per week - free of charge
Rejected ENN - now 42 cents per week

WAAAAAAAAH STOP ROBBING ME OF THINGS I FEEL ENTITLED TO YOU GUYS ARE ROTTEN SELLOUTS and I refuse to support you or the people that support you! gibe moar free shit plz

But seriously, if anyone else complains about getting a free goddamn cake and having to shell out a few pennies to eat the cherry on top I am going to scream.


Well put, like I said I am not, in any way, misinterpreting the move as hostile or selling out, I am however taken off guard by the sudden news. Still, the principal of basic economics holds true, we as consumers want everything for free, and we will get it for as close to free as possible. When something previously free/less becomes a pay service/more expensive there is a group mentality against it, not because the price is unreasonable, not because the increase is illogical, but because we had gotten it for free/less, and now we are not. Think about any product, what happens when the price is raised? See, it's just that we are consumers, not that we feel somehow entitled to the videos, someone doesn't feel entitled to cable, but when they raise the price, he will get angry anyway. However, the people who complain about the move because "Iz on teh Escapizt, I iz entit" are completely different. They have some sort of problem, what it is I can't say. I would like to think most of us are angry because of economics, not entitlement.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Dubious_wolf » 10 Jun 2010, 07:37

A) I knew this would happen
b) I have no issue, problem, grievence, etc as I have a membership.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Master Gunner » 10 Jun 2010, 08:10

The way I see it, the more content LRR produces for the Escapist means the more money they make. This is more content LRR is producing for the Escapist, and because it's exclusive content, that means they may well get a share of the profit (if there is any, considering the costs of HD video) from the publishers club. This empowers LRR to make more content, both free and exclusive. I am fine with this.

It also helps that I'm not actually paying for it. But while it may be a pain, $20 a year isn't that much, and even if you can't afford or pay that now, if you ever do, you get access to the entire back catalog. So it will always be there for you. And who knows, it may get put on a DVD or something in the future.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby tamaness » 10 Jun 2010, 08:13

Alex Steacy wrote:Escapist News Network - every week - free of charge
Loading Ready Run Sketches - every week - free of charge
Unskippable - every week - free of charge
Crapshots - 3 per week - free of charge
Rejected ENN - now 42 cents per week

WAAAAAAAAH STOP ROBBING ME OF THINGS I FEEL ENTITLED TO YOU GUYS ARE ROTTEN SELLOUTS and I refuse to support you or the people that support you! gibe moar free shit plz

But seriously, if anyone else complains about getting a free goddamn cake and having to shell out a few pennies to eat the cherry on top I am going to scream.


/thread.

LRR:"Hey guys, just a heads up: we won't be publishing rejected ENN scripts on our blog anymore, but you can watch outtakes from our new format on ENN if you buy a publisher's club membership."

pretty much everyone:"that's pretty reasonable."

vocal minority:"Waaah! they're taking away something I never had before anyway, and to which I was not entitled by way of paying said membership!"

LRR+everyone else:"dude. chill. you can still pay for a membership."

vocal minority:"Waah! the guys who pay the guys I like to make videos want me to pay for videos!"

LRR+everyone else:"seriously. chill."


but on a serious note, this video is pretty much accurate.

...and I may actually go and pay for content now. It's only $20. I payed $15 so I could keep my custom domain and email addresses. It's not that much money. About $1.67 per month. That's less than I make in dividends from my employee stock account.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Vohn_exel » 10 Jun 2010, 11:08

Like I said on the Forums for one of the Rejected ENN's over there, I don't have a problem with it. I see why you're doing it and I think it's kind of fitting since ENN started over there and is kind of an Escapist thing. But, just like I said, I hope that ya'll don't put all of your eggs in their basket and keep stuff like Bonus and On the Run where it is. I mean, I'll still be able to see it even if you do, but you know, it's the principal of the thing :p.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Jer » 10 Jun 2010, 11:16

ThrashJazzAssassin wrote:Hey Jer - I don't personally mind at all about the videos being hosted on The Escapist, but I think you guys need to bear in mind that you're always going to annoy some people if you do stuff without warning and then justify it.


I agreed with you. As with many things, this did not come together overnight, but when everything did fall into place, it happened very quickly. Please understand, we can't make announcements every time we a pitch a new idea--nine times out of ten, nothing comes of it--and it's important, in any situation, that we know exactly what's going on before we tell anyone about it. Sometimes there just isn't time to give notice.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Jer » 10 Jun 2010, 11:19

Vohn_exel wrote:But, just like I said, I hope that ya'll don't put all of your eggs in their basket and keep stuff like Bonus and On the Run where it is. I mean, I'll still be able to see it even if you do, but you know, it's the principal of the thing :p.


It's important to us that all LoadingReadyRun bonus content stay here. Unless something drastically changes, it's not going anywhere.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Dubious_wolf » 10 Jun 2010, 11:33

The rant video really does sum this thread up well. Can't believe I haven't seen it until just now. Then again there are still quite a few videos I haven't seen.... Despite pouring many hours upon first stumbling into this pleasant nook of the internet.
random question does the escapist put out any podcasts?
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Metcarfre » 10 Jun 2010, 11:40

Another thing to remember is that when, in the past, the Crew has announced changes prior to them being implemented, there has been all sorts of brouhaha and indignation that occurred. I have been as guilty of this as others. It happened with the announcement of the Runners, commodoreHUSTLE, the production of Unskippable and ENN, and the move to The Escapist. It makes sense for the crew to only announce something when it happens as then they don't have to run around stomping out rumours.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby MattAn » 10 Jun 2010, 11:47

metcarfre wrote:Another thing to remember is that when, in the past, the Crew has announced changes prior to them being implemented, there has been all sorts of brouhaha and indignation that occurred. I have been as guilty of this as others. It happened with the announcement of the Runners, commodoreHUSTLE, the production of Unskippable and ENN, and the move to The Escapist. It makes sense for the crew to only announce something when it happens as then they don't have to run around stomping out rumours.


Then.. Don't have the rumours in the first place?

It's not exactly difficult.. As I mentioned to Jer and Graham, I'm not expecting that they MUST inform the LRR forum whenever anything new ever happens or changes. That's just stupid. But a bit of a "be prepared for some changes, possibly something a little like this" (insert whatever is changing where this is. It doesn't take long, it doesn't need to be official. Just a little warning that there's a possibility of something else.. It's courtesy, if nothing else.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Graham » 10 Jun 2010, 11:51

Either way though, Hileict, we can't control how people will react, whether we announce something before, during or after something's happening.


Anyway, I think mostly everyone's on the same page here, and thanks again everyone for the feedback and for being largely cool about it!


To what Jer said earlier, what other behind-the-scenes info about ENN can we give you all?
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Evil Jim » 10 Jun 2010, 11:53

The crew has mentioned before that if they have to make a change that no amount of fan input will affect, in some cases they will just do it without warning & deal with any negative reaction afterward, rather than both before AND after the change. It may be abrupt at times but their logic is generally sound.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Metcarfre » 10 Jun 2010, 11:58

Would this extra content be here or on The Escapist? Since the logic of moving Rejected ENN Stories (which I agree with) there is to keep all ENN material in one place, it seems incongruous to have another bit of bonus content over here... I guess if it were 'free to all' on over there (as opposed to being restricted to Publisher's Club subscribers) would be cool.

An idea I'd like to see would be an editorial-style article that would deal with one or more of the stories from that week's ENN. Ideally, I think it should reflect you guys' actual, legitimate, opinions on the subject (as opposed to any satirical examination of the issue).
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby MattAn » 10 Jun 2010, 12:06

Graham wrote:Either way though, Hileict, we can't control how people will react, whether we announce something before, during or after something's happening.

Anyway, I think mostly everyone's on the same page here, and thanks again everyone for the feedback and for being largely cool about it!

To what Jer said earlier, what other behind-the-scenes info about ENN can we give you all?


I can completely understand the reasoning to avoid any and all disappoint(ment), etc. That's not a problem.. I mean, I personally feel that if something is at least up in the air, I'm sure the majority would be totally cool with the idea, because (not sure about everyone else) I trust that the LRR crew knows exactly what they're doing. If people complain about the concept even before it's even been done, that's their problem. At least it's been mentioned, or at the very least, a concept has been put out there.

As for extra ENN stuff.. Hm.. I guess the only thing I can come up with at the moment is some sort of "storyboard" thing. How the crew came up with the stories and maybe a little exposé on the planning process, y'know?

That's just an idea I threw out there, something like that would be neato!

I've also been working out the kinks of a possible LRR sketch, so that's been taking some time. I'll probably get in contact with you in the near future to discuss it further, Graham.. It may need some tweaking..
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby wartjr2373 » 10 Jun 2010, 12:09

It could be something similar to what you did with Rejected ENN before, i.e. you could tell us the ideas that you didn't film. I would imagine there would be less of them and they wouldn't be as good, though.

Posting high-quality versions of the photoshops you made for the episode could be cool as well. I'm trying to think of an idea that isn't making another series of videos.

If you do want to make more bonus videos for us, a series of Loading Times, like was said before, would be awesome. Another idea that occurs is to film portions of the ENN meetings, styled like On the Run.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby AlexanderDitto » 10 Jun 2010, 12:13

Graham wrote:To what Jer said earlier, what other behind-the-scenes info about ENN can we give you all?


Shoe size, mother's maiden name, credit card num-

Hem hem. I mean... yes! I think metcarfre's suggestion is interesting... maybe recording you guys discussing games, your opinion on the stories, etc?

Or just 30 minutes of everyone trying on ridiculous wigs. It fills me with delight.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby MattAn » 10 Jun 2010, 12:15

wartjr2373 wrote:If you do want to make more bonus videos for us, a series of Loading Times, like was said before, would be awesome. Another idea that occurs is to film portions of the ENN meetings, styled like On the Run.


Pretty much this, from what I said earlier :O Not necessarily a brand new behind-the-scenes series, more of a Loading Time or On the Run, but an exposé on the planning process. Throwing around personal views on the topics or even how they make it into the finished product.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Jer » 10 Jun 2010, 12:29

metcarfre wrote:Would this extra content be here or on The Escapist? Since the logic of moving Rejected ENN Stories (which I agree with) there is to keep all ENN material in one place, it seems incongruous to have another bit of bonus content over here... I guess if it were 'free to all' on over there (as opposed to being restricted to Publisher's Club subscribers) would be cool.


We're looking, specifically, for ideas on the kind of content you'd like to fill the hole left by Rejected ENN on our site.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby GreigKM » 10 Jun 2010, 12:37

You know, if you brought back the Whatever Thing...
Okay, okay, I know, a man can dream right?
Anyway, expanding Loading Time or On The Run to cover ENN seems like a good idea to me, but I'm not the one making it.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Metcarfre » 10 Jun 2010, 12:44

Jer wrote:
metcarfre wrote:Would this extra content be here or on The Escapist? Since the logic of moving Rejected ENN Stories (which I agree with) there is to keep all ENN material in one place, it seems incongruous to have another bit of bonus content over here... I guess if it were 'free to all' on over there (as opposed to being restricted to Publisher's Club subscribers) would be cool.


We're looking, specifically, for ideas on the kind of content you'd like to fill the hole left by Rejected ENN on our site.


Well, quite frankly, nothing then. Since ENN is 'The Escapist News Network', I'm personally of the opinion that everything relating to it should be over on The Escapist.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Evil Jim » 10 Jun 2010, 13:05

Jer wrote:We're looking, specifically, for ideas on the kind of content you'd like to fill the hole left by Rejected ENN on our site.
Moar Phailhaus!

Tho' that's probably not the type of suggestion you were looking for.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Bluebottle » 10 Jun 2010, 13:07

I will admit that I have not read the four pages of comments on this thread. Indeed I shouldn't even be here since I'm late for work. Still, I wanted to put my two cents in, so LRR can get a better feel of how many people feel what way.

I have no problem with this whatsoever. It's called ENN because it is the Escapist News Network. It's theirs, they pay for it. And that 'pay' thing is important. I can only guess at the finances of LRR, but I doubt merchandising supports them as well as a company that gives them cashmoney to make three video series a week. Escapist deserves support because they support LRR, who in turn support us through our working day. (Geez, I'm even later now.)

I am sad not to see them of course. As to replacements, well, I'll join the chorus for Phailhaus, one of my favorite Rapidash-style series. Speaking of rapidly dashing, I must go. Leave of hassling the holes in my logic for about 8 hours, please.
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Re: Rejected ENN Moves to The Escapist

Postby Vohn_exel » 10 Jun 2010, 13:09

Jer wrote:
Vohn_exel wrote:But, just like I said, I hope that ya'll don't put all of your eggs in their basket and keep stuff like Bonus and On the Run where it is. I mean, I'll still be able to see it even if you do, but you know, it's the principal of the thing :p.


It's important to us that all LoadingReadyRun bonus content stay here. Unless something drastically changes, it's not going anywhere.


Yeah I figured ya'll won't, and even if you did like I said I wouldn't have a problem with it. As far as something else to fill the hole left by the Rejected ENN, I can't really think of anything. I don't see there really being that much of a need for extra ENN stuff, and generally ya'll cover everything in bonus and on the runs and the like anyway. So...I guess I go with that guys suggestion of everyone wearing silly wigs :P.

(Just saw the new guy's post) If Phailhaus is an option then definitely that!
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