Codes of Conduct

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Codes of Conduct

Postby JustAName » 18 Jul 2016, 08:06

So we've had discussions about what words to use and not to use, both here in the forums, and in general.

Now, as far as the forums go, rule one is be polite: http://loadingreadyrun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13361 We don't always stick to this rule, but I think we for the most part try. And for me, that definitely means no using any slurs, which are words historically used to insult and belittle certain groups of people on the basis that what they ARE is worthy of insult. I don't truck with the usage of these words in here for their original purpose (there are conversations to be had on whether we can/should use them when speaking ABOUT the word, or to reclaim them).

As far as the world at large goes - of course we can't control your speech or thoughts, but why use these words? Why use words that have historically been used to hurt and commit violence against people for the sin of being different? If your argument is that they are no longer harmful or someone from that group said you could, I think you should acknowledge that members of that group may still be hurt by that word, and you should realise the consequences of your actions if you continue to use it. If your argument is "because I want to," well, then you can, but you're a dick. You have to acknowledge that.

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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby Elomin Sha » 18 Jul 2016, 09:15

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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby CamelKnackRambleHort » 18 Jul 2016, 10:25

I assume this was spawned by some argument on the forums about someone using a word that they didn't want to stop using.

I think it is a reasonable request that people don't use certain words that have historically been a problem. For example from my own situation, tranny, f*g, and gay (when used as an insult) are such words that I would think any considerate person should avoid using. I'll stick to those three examples in my post. There are exceptions, such as for explanation or as Fayili noted reclaiming the term, but generally speaking it is best to just avoid using them. So long as there is an efficient way to communicate what you are saying there is no reason not to.

I mean, what is the purpose of continuing to use these sorts of words? What is really gained? I mean, I have heard all sorts of why people wont stop using them, none of which are ever convincing, but I never really see arguments FOR their use. I think this is because there is no good argument to be made. I mean, what communicative power do we gain by calling someone a f*g unless you are communicating ignorance and hate? Why is it so important that gay be allowed as a catch all insult?

There is no reason to use these words except habit. Which means the reason people really refuse to stop using these sorts of words is that they are unwilling to adjust their habits. It is the most minor of changes, but they refuse to make that change because they value a small amount of their own convenience over the comfort of those around them. Their tolerance, support, and compassion for others only goes exactly as far as is convenient for them, not a single step further.

This doesn't mean they are bad people. Perhaps they are just a bit stubborn and don't understand why this is so important. But I would say they have a little self examination to do.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 18 Jul 2016, 11:31

See, this is a bit complicated. While I want to say I'm 100% on board with what CamelKnack is saying, I have a particular example that's been causing me trouble for some time now. Maybe folks in this thread can help me figure it out.

The big issue is cultural context. There is a particular term - "Fenian" - that is apparently insulting in the UK and the Republic of Ireland. But I'm Canadian, and here in Canada the term is never used in an insulting way - in fact, I've only ever heard it used to refer to historical events and people, never actual, currently-living individuals or groups.

See, in the 1800s, there were a number of invasions of Canada from the United States called the Fenian Raids. They were called this because the invading group was called the Fenian Brotherhood - a name they gave themselves.

As I understand it, the pejorative connotations of the term "Fenian" came about long after the Raids and after the group itself had ceased to exist. The term would be (and still is) used as a derogatory term; I don't know exactly why or how, but I assume it wrongly and insultingly conflates ordinary people with revolutionaries. (Do correct me if I'm wrong on this - again, different cultural context).

But, the term holds none of that pejorative meaning in Canada. It's only ever used in an historical context to describe historical events, groups, and people. It is only ever used to refer to the Raids and the Brotherhood.

So... is it wrong for me to use the term in its Canadian context?

I ask, because this has come up before. Kate Beaton made a comic about the Fenian Raids. She was unaware of the word's non-Canadian meaning or context. When she was made aware, she chose to edit the comic to remove the term. (Incidentally, seeing her do this was the first time I was even aware that the term had a pejorative meaning anywhere in the world).

And that's what has me torn.

On the one hand, I don't want to use a term that is hurtful - for all the reasons that CamelKnack laid out.

On the other hand, there isn't any other term available for use when referring to the Raids. And the use of the term in its Canadian historical context is entirely devoid of derogatory meaning. Also... all else aside... there's no real way to refer to the Fenian Brotherhood other than by that name - its actual, historical, self-chosen name.

So...

Is it acceptable to use the term in Canadian historical context, given that it isn't and never has been a slur here?

Is it acceptable that British and Irish cultural context be imported to Canada, eclipsing Canadian cultural context?

Is it okay to use a term in a context where it isn't pejorative, even though the same term, filtered through a different context, is pejorative?

I honestly don't know.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby Elomin Sha » 18 Jul 2016, 11:47

Never heard of Fenian before.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby JustAName » 18 Jul 2016, 11:53

I'd say that's a fine use since it's a historical context and there's no other word. As long as it's clear you're using it to describe a historical thing and not using it in a derogatory way, it shouldn't be an issue. I'm also from NA, though, so I can't speak to this particular instance.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby Psyclone » 18 Jul 2016, 11:55

So okay, I'm not sure how much I understand of this because I've never heard this term used before at all, but are you saying it's a historical term that was later used as a pejorative?

I guess I would say, since you have no other alternative words to use to describe those events and those people and you seem to be asking only about referring to them, then it seems okay to use that term in its historical context. Unless there's more to the story I don't know, I'm not sure why it would even come up in the UK, but I think you have a right to talk about Canadian politics and since no other words have been proposed, that's your only option. It also sounds like it doesn't actually refer to any oppressed group of people or minority, so I'm not sure who it's offending.

I can't think of any other instances where a historical term has been censored when talking about the historical events itself, but I'm sure there are other cases you could compare this to.

If other people disagree though I'd love to hear it, because like Arclight said I'd normally be very firmly in the 'don't say that' camp and I'm not sure what to think, especially since I don't have the cultural context.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 18 Jul 2016, 12:25

Elomin Sha wrote:Never heard of Fenian before.


As I say, I hadn't, either. At least not as a current slur. Apparently it's entirely unused in North America.

Fayili wrote:I'd say that's a fine use since it's a historical context and there's no other word. As long as it's clear you're using it to describe a historical thing and not using it in a derogatory way, it shouldn't be an issue. I'm also from NA, though, so I can't speak to this particular instance.


That's what I was hoping, frankly.

And, to be clear, I'd only ever use the term in its proper historical context. It would never occur to me to describe someone using the term; it literally has no modern context to me. It would be like calling someone on the street a "Carthaginian." It makes no sense.

But now that I know the term apparently does have a modern use, and it's derogatory, I'm doubly certain to never use it to describe a living individual or group.

I'm really just asking if we think it's acceptable to continue to use it to describe historical persons, groups, and events.

Psyclone wrote:So okay, I'm not sure how much I understand of this because I've never heard this term used before at all, but are you saying it's a historical term that was later used as a pejorative?


Correct. In the mid- to late-1800s, a group of Irish nationalists formed what they called the "Fenian Brotherhood." Among other things, they invaded Canada from the United States in an effort to pressure the British into granting independence for Ireland. These invasions into Canada were called the "Fenian Raids," and were part of a larger political and military campaign known as the "Fenian Rising."

As far as I understand, after the group itself has ceased to exist (or changed its name), the term "Fenian" kept being used in the UK and Ireland as a pejorative. It's still used that way there today. The term in Canada, though, has never had any pejorative meaning, and is not used at all today except to describe the historical groups and events that I referenced above.

I guess I would say, since you have no other alternative words to use to describe those events and those people and you seem to be asking only about referring to them, then it seems okay to use that term in its historical context. Unless there's more to the story I don't know, I'm not sure why it would even come up in the UK, but I think you have a right to talk about Canadian politics and since no other words have been proposed, that's your only option. It also sounds like it doesn't actually refer to any oppressed group of people or minority, so I'm not sure who it's offending.


From Wikipedia:

Northern Ireland

In Northern Ireland, Fenian is used by some as a derogatory word for Catholics;[1][2] in 2012, British National Party leader Nick Griffin was criticised by Unionists and Republicans for tweeting the term while attending an Ulster Covenant event at Stormont, Belfast; Griffin referred to Lambeg drums, saying "the bodran [sic] can't match the lambeg, you fenian bastards".[11][12]

Scotland

The term Fenian is used similarly in Scotland. During Scottish football matches it is often aimed in a sectarian manner at supporters of Celtic F.C..[13] Celtic has its roots in Glasgow's immigrant Catholic Irish population and the club has thus been associated with Irish nationalism, symbolised by the almost universal flying of the Irish Tricolour during matches. Other Scottish clubs that have Irish roots, such as Hibernian and Dundee United, do not have the term applied to them, however.[14] The term is now firmly rooted within the Old Firm rivalry between Celtic and Rangers, as a rivalry between "orange and green" has been replaced by one between "blue and green".[15]


Apparently the term is also used in Australia:

Australia

In Australia Fenian is used as a pejorative term for those members of the Australian Labor Party (ALP) who have Australian Republican views similar to those who support Irish unification. Michael Atkinson, Attorney-General of South Australia, spoke of those members of the ALP who wished to remove the title Queen's Counsel and other references to the crown as "Fenians and Bolsheviks" in a speech given at the ALP Convention in Adelaide on 15 October 2006. Atkinson made a further mention of Fenianism when the title of Queen's Counsel was abolished.[16]


Again... no such derogatory meaning attaches to the term in Canada. It's entirely historical, and refers to the events of the mid- to late-1800s:

In Canada, Fenian is used to designate a group of Irish radicals, a.k.a. the American branch of the Fenian Brotherhood in the 1860s. They made several attempts (1866, 1870, etc.) to invade some parts of the Province of Canada (Southern Ontario and Missisquoi County[5]) which were a British dominion at the time. The ultimate goal of the Fenian raids was to hold Canada hostage and therefore be in a position to blackmail the United Kingdom to give Ireland its independence. Because of the invasion attempts, support and/or collaboration for the Fenians in Canada became very rare even among the Irish.

...

The danger posed by the Fenian raids was an important element in motivating the British North America colonies to consider a more centralised defence for mutual protection which was ultimately realised through Canadian Confederation.


Psyclone wrote:I can't think of any other instances where a historical term has been censored when talking about the historical events itself, but I'm sure there are other cases you could compare this to.

If other people disagree though I'd love to hear it, because like Arclight said I'd normally be very firmly in the 'don't say that' camp and I'm not sure what to think, especially since I don't have the cultural context.


Yep, I'd love to hear it, too. I know we have some forum members from the UK, and I think we have at least one from Ireland. I'd love to hear from them.

Oh, and for further context, this is the Kate Beaton comic I referred to. And this is what she had to say below it:

Edit to this:

I decided to change the name of comic #364, I'll just give you a brief explanation.

In North America, events of the 1860s/70s wherein Irish Americans invaded Canada are called the Fenian Raids.

Like so.

It's in the textbooks. You get a history book sometime in high school and open it up and there it is, "Fenian raids." And that's the only time you ever hear the word Fenian over here, if people say it, they're talking about some very specific people in the 1860s/70s who called themselves that. Can't say it comes up in conversation much.

Across the ocean, the word means something more, and worse, which I didn't really get the full understanding of until the comic went up - then, of course, people will point things out to you. Still I left it, because I figured maybe it was complex enough to embody a bunch of meanings, including the one I knew. But that doesn't really matter, does it? I don't think so. Who cares if people in North America are unoffended if other people are? That's basic decency math. Anyway I really should have done it sooner, I'm sorry I didn't do it right away.


I totally, entirely respect her decision to make the change. I'm just not sure I would feel it necessary to make the change myself. But then... maybe I'm wrong? Maybe I should make such a change if it was me?

That's what I'm wondering.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby AlexanderDitto » 18 Jul 2016, 12:27

So hey.

Rule 1 of these forums, established nearly six years ago, is:
Kathleen wrote:Politeness isn't a lost art in this forum. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Don't be a dick. Before you post - ask yourself: "is this stupid, or am I stupid?"


If person 1 uses a slur, and person 2 says, "hey, that slur makes me uncomfortable, please don't use it," the polite thing for person 1 to say is, "oh, sorry, I didn't know, I'll try not to use it around you" aka at least in threads that person frequents, if not on these boards. Saying "no, I don't care, I'll keep using it" is quite impolite.

Rule 2 is
Kathleen wrote:If someone's getting on your goat, talk it out!

which is exactly what speaking up and saying "hey that makes me uncomfortable" is doing. So asking that is in line with the rules and should be expected/welcomed.

---

In the case of general things not making one feel comfortable (not a targeted attack on a group, which I think would be grounds for some further action, but just general slur use), I know it is not an ideal solution, but I would remind people to feel free to use the board's mute functionality; if you go to someone's profile and add them to your "foe" list, their posts will be hidden by default.

It may behoove us all to know that if we are consistently rude to others, people will not be listening to/reading our posts.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby CamelKnackRambleHort » 18 Jul 2016, 12:59

@Arclight_Dynamo

I think you might have hit on one of the exceptions I noted, even if I didn't specifically call it out. Sometimes there is a legitimate use of these kinds of words. And sometimes these legitimate uses are hit on, and sometimes someone says a word they didn't know was bad, and there are all sorts of "what if" scenarios we can come up with.

But generally speaking, this is not what we are talking about. We are not talking about what we are allowed to do, we are talking about trying to be decent to each other. Lets see what Kate Beaton has to say about the whole situation with her comic and the word Fenian:

"It's in the textbooks. You get a history book sometime in high school and open it up and there it is, "Fenian raids." And that's the only time you ever hear the word Fenian over here, if people say it, they're talking about some very specific people in the 1860s/70s who called themselves that. Can't say it comes up in conversation much.

Across the ocean, the word means something more, and worse, which I didn't really get the full understanding of until the comic went up - then, of course, people will point things out to you. Still I left it, because I figured maybe it was complex enough to embody a bunch of meanings, including the one I knew. But that doesn't really matter, does it? I don't think so. Who cares if people in North America are unoffended if other people are? That's basic decency math. Anyway I really should have done it sooner, I'm sorry I didn't do it right away."

I think her response is the best kind of example. She said a thing she didn't know was a problem. When people pointed ou the problem initially she didn't want to change it, like anyone who has been told to "correct" themselves, but after consideration she changed her mind. Why? Not because she wasn't allowed to say it, because changing it was what she should do according to her own estimation of basic decency. She decided that she would make an effort to do the decent thing.

Sure, if you are talking about the Fenian Brotherhood in it's proper historical context then it is probably OK to use it. But the exceptions in this sort of thing are narrow. If we are aware a term is potentially damaging the question to ask isn't "Can I get away with using it here?" It should be "Why should I use it here?" If you can't come up with a compelling reason then probably don't.

Personally I think it is worth erring on the side of decency. That is what Kate Beaton did, and I respect her for it. And it also means that if I ever hear of her using the words "tranny" or "f*g" I am going to give her every possible benefit of the doubt. She earned that by proving she is the type of person who is more concerned with being decent to other people than stubbornly clinging to a term she knows can hurt others.

Edit: This was written entirely in response to your first post, Arclight_Dynamo, for context.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby korvys » 18 Jul 2016, 13:43

Regarding slurs, I pretty much avoid them entirely, unless they are absolutely necessary, which is typically only when quoting someone who used them, or referring to the word itself, which I don't feel is the same as using the word, and those situations tend to demand clarity. I do try to construct my writing so as to avoid those situations, though, such as this paragraph, in which I could have referred to specific examples and then justified them, but didn't.

As for other words that might give offence, as I said in the other thread, I at least want to know if I am causing offence. Maybe I will think it worth it, but why in the world would I ever not want to minimise the offence I give to others? The world has enough cruelty and pain in it already, why would I ever want to add to that? My cruelty is not going to "toughen people up", and if it were to, who the hell am I to decide that someone needs that? Fuck that.

Ditto, thank you for dropping in. Your contributions to this community are always very thoughtful.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby Psyclone » 18 Jul 2016, 13:47

Nice to see you, Ditto! It's always good to hear from you :D

I actually censor slurs when I quote someone or when I'm referring to them for whatever reason, either with asterisks or saying f-slur or t-slur or something like that. The first one really only works online, but to me it's an easy way to play it safe and make my meaning clear still without having to say them.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby korvys » 18 Jul 2016, 13:55

Yeah, I tend towards the same, but I think those situations are the only times they might be necessary, and so defensible. If one can avoid them, I don't know why one wouldn't.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby Psyclone » 18 Jul 2016, 14:09

Oh of course! Sometimes there's no way of getting out of saying them. There are some of them that I'm also just plain uncomfortable saying, so I'd avoid them no matter what, but I often have to explain myself even if I refer to them more vaguely because people don't know what I"m talking about.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby xantheros » 18 Jul 2016, 14:23

Irish person here, from well south of the border. I've never heard it used myself, though maybe it comes up in the border counties and no doubt still comes up in Northern Ireland. I was aware it was derogatory, but wasn't actually sure which demographic it was aimed at.

I think it is strange for someone to just see the word fenian and think "that is offensive" regardless of context. The Irish nationalists of the 1860s chose the fenian moniker themselves, supposedly inspired by the Fianna, a mythical army of heroes. Calling someone in Northern Ireland a fenian carries with it a bunch of connotations ranging from "catholic" to "republican terrorist", but talking about the actions of the historical Fenian Brotherhood should not be burdened with that context.

That said, I live nowhere near the border and I can count on one hand the number of times I have visited the North. Perhaps fenian is used pejoratively on a regular enough basis that someone could have internalised it as an insult, regardless of context. I still think using the word when talking about an organisation literally called the Fenian Brotherhood is acceptable.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 18 Jul 2016, 18:32

Huh. That's really interesting, thank you!

As I mentioned, my only exposure to the term as derogatory came from Kate Beaton's comic, and her decision to remove the term from it. From her reaction, I figured that people told her it was very offensive.

And, since the context she was using it in was both Canadian and historical, I took that to mean its use, even in an historical context, is unacceptable.

I appreciate that you're not from, or from near, the North, but it's interesting that the term seems less common and less burningly offensive than I had assumed.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby Psyclone » 24 Jul 2016, 15:14

Someone shared this on facebook and while those kind of posts usually annoy me, I thought this one was relevant:

Image

It's perhaps a little less polite than I would have put it, but the sentiment is spot on.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby korvys » 24 Jul 2016, 17:23

People tend to assume they are intelligent enough, and rational enough, to be objective and to see the issue from all sides and come to a logical conclusion.

They're not. The majority of the time, they are not really able to imagine what it would be like if they were the marginalised person in question, but they think they can. They have an idea of what that person's life is like, but it's almost certainly inaccurate.

I saw it when people were talking about the protests/riots in Baltimore. "Even if the police were murdering my people, I wouldn't riot and destroy local businessness, they're just hurting themselves."
I put it to you, hypothetical person, that the fact that you cannot imagine a point at which ostensibly self-destructive behaviour seems like the correct action, does not mean that it is not the correct action, and rather it indicates a lack of imagination for the level of anger. You have not actually been able to empathise with them, but you think you have. In some cases, this is as bad as not empathising at all.

If someone tells you a word is harmful and you don't get it, you could assume they're lying and/or stupid, or you could consider that maybe you're wrong. If lots of people are saying it's harmful, then the second option should get some serious consideration.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby Psyclone » 24 Jul 2016, 19:54

The flip side of that is that people tend to assume that the people who are asking them not to say thing thing are not intelligent or rational. If they can't have a conversation without being upset or letting their emotions through, if they can't be objective on an issue that affects them, then they have failed in some way and their argument is invalid.

The ability to be objective comes from a place of privilege, I think, and it's harmful to assume that everyone will have the spoons to debate you whenever you want.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby korvys » 24 Jul 2016, 22:05

But that's just it. I don't think anyone can be as objective as they think they can. And regardless of your ability, privilege is likely to make you overestimate your objectivity, having grown up in an environment that requires you to question yourself less often.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby JayBlanc » 25 Jul 2016, 03:11

If you need to write several paragraphs to explain why it's okay for you to use a word that might upset people, you might want to think about if it's also necessary to use that word.
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby JustAName » 30 Jul 2016, 01:36

The following is a guest post in the form of an open letter from Special Olympics athlete and global messenger John Franklin Stephens to Ann Coulter after this tweet during last night’s Presidential debate.

Dear Ann Coulter,

Come on Ms. Coulter, you aren’t dumb and you aren’t shallow. So why are you continually using a word like the R-word as an insult?

I’m a 30 year old man with Down syndrome who has struggled with the public’s perception that an intellectual disability means that I am dumb and shallow. I am not either of those things, but I do process information more slowly than the rest of you. In fact it has taken me all day to figure out how to respond to your use of the R-word last night.

I thought first of asking whether you meant to describe the President as someone who was bullied as a child by people like you, but rose above it to find a way to succeed in life as many of my fellow Special Olympians have.

Then I wondered if you meant to describe him as someone who has to struggle to be thoughtful about everything he says, as everyone else races from one snarkey sound bite to the next.

Finally, I wondered if you meant to degrade him as someone who is likely to receive bad health care, live in low grade housing with very little income and still manages to see life as a wonderful gift.

Because, Ms. Coulter, that is who we are – and much, much more.

After I saw your tweet, I realized you just wanted to belittle the President by linking him to people like me. You assumed that people would understand and accept that being linked to someone like me is an insult and you assumed you could get away with it and still appear on TV.

I have to wonder if you considered other hateful words but recoiled from the backlash.

Well, Ms. Coulter, you, and society, need to learn that being compared to people like me should be considered a badge of honor.

No one overcomes more than we do and still loves life so much.

Come join us someday at Special Olympics. See if you can walk away with your heart unchanged.

A friend you haven’t made yet,
John Franklin Stephens
Global Messenger
Special Olympics Virginia


Taken from the Special Olympics Blog.
Alja-Markir wrote:Andy is the LRR Heart-throb.
Morgan is the LRR Crotch-throb.


And all I can do is read a book to stay awake. And it rips my life away, but it's a great escape.

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Elomin Sha
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby Elomin Sha » 04 Sep 2016, 09:45

I was originally going to take the high road and not bring this up, buuuuuuuuuuut I'm me, and my annoyance from what happened previously overides that. I am goofey, I am silly, I am [can't say that word] with what I say, because I like to make people laugh. But, when I am direct it is few and far between because I know I can upset someone and it's probably going to be today too.

So goodbye common sense. My firestarting kit is en fuego.


It is quite hypocritical that I can be called out and have this thread made to deal with me with a passive aggressive stance of: if you don't like it - there's the door. All this when I was refering to people I know personally and Fayili assumes with one-hundred percent positivity it will offend some imaginary person who in all likely will never read what I wrote. It comes from the French for late.

BUT

Fayili wrote:I NEVER use this word, but she sounds like a bitch. You are not in the wrong here.


Fayili finds it is okay that she can use a degrading/insulting term, that people use to belittle someone (mainly one gender), to insult a REAL person she has never met before and only had a couple lines to go on (even if that girl is a moron).

It's not the first time you have jumped in guns blazing. Remember: you told another forum member not to use the term OCD because you didn't like it, prejudging them without realising they had that condition. In turn it made them apologise for something they didn't need to. And, because I made a reference to LRR's video Offensivity (getting offended on the behalf of others) that in a PM you used your emotions to make me feel bad about what I had done, and tried to be high and mighty saying you would forgive me in time. I don't ask for people's forgiveness, never have or will, it is up to a person to give never demand they need forgiveness. That is self-centred. You thought I was in the wrong, I thought I was in the right with what I said: it's an impass. I've called others out for it many a time for things in other threads or in real life.

If you would, please dismount from the high horse as it is my turn, thank you.


One of my favourite quotes:

Caboose: You ever wonder why we're here?
Church: You know, Caboose, I used to not care. I just went along with orders and hoped that everything would work out for me. But after all that's happened, you know what I've learned? It's not about hating the guy on the other side because someone told you to. I mean, you should hate someone because they're an asshole or a pervert or a snob, or they're lazy or arrogant or an idiot or a know-it-all. Those are reasons to dislike somebody. You don't hate a person because someone told you to; you have to despise people on a personal level, not because they're red or because they're blue, but because you know them and you see them every single day, and you can't stand them because they're a complete and total fucking douchebag.

That's the people I have had to deal with that you have no clue about.
I don't hate you, never will. Some people just need to be told things directly, like I have in my life, otherwise they will never grow and develop.

If this annoys anyone to the point that I get banned: I am eLOLmin of Sha, the most rakish, svelte, and seductive owner of the bag, thanks for all the fish (wish it had been salmon and not snook).
Last edited by Elomin Sha on 04 Sep 2016, 12:51, edited 1 time in total.
The most unique, nicest, and confusing individual you will get to know. Don't be stupid around me, that's my job.
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If you need art, I take commissions, PM me.
JustAName
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby JustAName » 04 Sep 2016, 09:52

I have read this post. I am on holiday this weekend and will not be responding right away. I will not ban you.
Alja-Markir wrote:Andy is the LRR Heart-throb.
Morgan is the LRR Crotch-throb.


And all I can do is read a book to stay awake. And it rips my life away, but it's a great escape.

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Elomin Sha
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Re: Codes of Conduct

Postby Elomin Sha » 04 Sep 2016, 12:42

Woooooooooooo! No ban!


Have a good holiday.
The most unique, nicest, and confusing individual you will get to know. Don't be stupid around me, that's my job.
https://displate.com/elominsha/galleries
If you need art, I take commissions, PM me.

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