Achievement Unlocked: More reference pics than porn

[Interruptor Jones]

Dang, what is it with the intelligent discourse up in hurr? I'm kind of shocked that this is still an ongoing/coherent thread. I'd totally hang out with you folks, no lie. If only there were some way to get all the forumites in one place for some kind of event...

HINT HINT

[tak197]

I don't really want to go into my own preferences here, thanks.

You're a babyfur, aren't you.

Nooooooo.

[Ian]

You misunderstand. The porn folder has tons of video.

The reference folder has none, and it's still larger despite being nothing but images.

It could stand a bit more sorting and almost none of the items are named, but its pretty fun stuff nonetheless. Maybe I will torrent it at some point.

Though I could use IRL monies...

really hard to sort porn with one hand, had to make the joke
but seriously, Hentai is still porn. any art produced for the desired effect of arousal is. For some people this includes sped up movies of flowers blooming

I also agree with points made by Alja but I think interrupter may have your solution. "Actors" (and I put that in quotes because I'm a theatre snob) can ruin it, Reality porn just dosen't suspend your disbelief enough? Try erotica. The free no hassle solution to your porn predicament.

Even this can sometimes be about the same negative aspects of sex that Alja mentioned, I.E. "oh yes god god yes god god... is it out yet?"and some can read like the latest trashy romance novel, there is plenty of room in the middle.

I think I have a site that may add to this discussion.

http://www.chyoo.com:81/

[whyarecarrots]

[

I also agree with points made by Alja but I think interrupter may have your solution. "Actors" (and I put that in quotes because I'm a theatre snob) can ruin it, Reality porn just dosen't suspend your disbelief enough? Try erotica. The free no hassle solution to your porn predicament.

Even this can sometimes be about the same negative aspects of sex that Alja mentioned, I.E. "oh yes god god yes god god... is it out yet?"and some can read like the latest trashy romance novel, there is plenty of room in the middle.

I think I have a site that may add to this discussion.

http://www.chyoo.com:81/

As a word of warning, that site looks pretty NSFW, although most of this thread is pretty NSFW....

[goat]

For some people this includes sped up movies of flowers blooming

So that's where all the bees went. Their too busy jerking off to flower porn. DAMN YOU INTERNET!

[Telaril]

A note on judging (or not judging) someone on their porn:

I used to have a pretty big problem with some varieties of BDSM porn. I thought certain facets of that fetish (Mostly the humiliation and abuse) were irrevocably sick.

Then I got into a conversation with a girl who was a hardcore sub fetishist. She wouldn't be attracted to someone unless they were willing to treat her like a pet, command her, punish her, etc. As I got to learn more about sex subcultures, I realized that such a thing isn't very rare. Another friend of mine had a lover who was the same way, couldn't enjoy herself unless she was being insulted or choked or something similar.

After this I didn't have a problem with BDSM porn anymore, as long as it was established that the subs in them were consenting submissives who actually enjoyed the play. After that, I pretty much came to the conclusion that there wasn't anything wrong with any porn where no one was being made to do something against their will... though there are still some extreme things that put me off.

[Interruptor Jones]

Yep, people do some fucked-up things to each other. As long as everyone actually follows the whole 'safe, sane, consensual' bit then I feel no reason to discourage them. A small percentage of BDSM folk will argue that they can do what they like, to whomever they like (within their scene), simply because they want to - and those are the folk you want to stay away from. The rest of the community is remarkably level-headed. It still freaks me out a good deal, but I have the excellent option of not participating.

[Trisha Lynn]

Now see, storing your porn collection on your local hard drive seems to me in the same category as storing your collection of highly infectious diseases next to the nursery/playground. It's just a hazard waiting to happen.

Is this because you guys operate on the assumption that you'll be hacked one day and someone will find it?

My porn is clearly noted in my Foxmarks, although I do "hide" it in a sub-folder of "Things to Watch."

On my HD, anyone who's also familiar with pay-porn companies could easily find it because the folder with the company name is right there in the "Videos" folder.

The reason why I don't hide it much is that I'm not ashamed of some of the things I enjoy and don't mind discussing them in appropriate venues.


Trisha Lynn
...my mother even knows that I write erotic stuff sometimes...

[Lyinginbedmon]

I'm prone to giving thi wierd names when they're something I'm working on, like Theseus and Secerno.

So if I had a porn collection, I'd name it something strange and everyone would just leave it along for that reason.

[Trisha Lynn]

I don't mean to pimp out the MovieMake-out.com stuff beyond putting it in my .sig, but I will direct you to the excerpt from an essay I posted about recently which was written by Roger Ebert because it dovetails nicely into Alja's awesome idea:

There is a shot of bare flesh. It shows her fingernail lightly running along his spine. The shot is held only as long as that would take. It is incredibly erotic. There is a fade after they finish, and then she is standing by the window and saying she is hungry. Do they go to a restaurant? No, they go grocery shopping. When two new lovers go grocery shopping together, they are playing house, and they both know it.

In knowing that such a scene from a movie exists, I find that in itself is incredibly erotic, but then again, maybe I am just a "big dumb girl" about things.

The reason why I like Alja's idea is that though I'm not ashamed or afraid to say I enjoy some porn, I will also note that sometimes I like looking at or reading something that is filmed with love and sensuality in mind because that part of my sexual nature needs nurturing as well.

In the beginning of the Ebert article, he does explore one reason why "serious" actors wouldn't do such a thing:

When Sydney Pollack was making "Out of Africa" in 1985, he considered the problem of how to film Meryl Streep and Robert Redford in love scenes that were not explicit, yet were erotic. "When I have Streep and Redford together," he told me, "I don't want to see them strip naked and writhe around in bed together. The challenge was to find love scenes that would have emotion and passion and yet not violate a certain place where we want to see them."

and

We don't want to see Streep and Redford in a conventional sex scene. That would break the film's romantic spell, and reduce it to sexual choreography. In most movie sex scenes, the director chooses lighting, camera placement, music, and the tempo at which he decides intercourse should take place. The actors perform not as they might in life, but as they think their characters would. I have never seen a "sex scene" that was particularly erotic.

In conclusion, though I did make fun of it in a friend's LiveJournal, I am really interested in seeing "Shortbus" because all of the sex scenes are unsimulated, and knowing that the actors in the scenes are actually really having sex in the movie and that even the director (who is gay, mind you) went down on a woman in the final orgy scene "as a gesture of solidarity" is incredibly hot.


Trisha Lynn
...why did I never join the forums until now...?

[ExtraSensory]

I am absolutely legally obtaining a copy of this film right now. I'll let you know what I think after I watch it. It sounds pretty interesting. And I guess I should watch as many different kinds of films as I can, I want to be a director after all.

[Yukikaze]

Is this because you guys operate on the assumption that you'll be hacked one day and someone will find it?

...

The reason why I don't hide it much is that I'm not ashamed of some of the things I enjoy and don't mind discussing them in appropriate venues.

What, so now it's a bad thing to not want to announce to everyone, "Hey, I like porn! I watch this and this and this, and I'm into this!"

Where I come from, porn can get you in trouble, both among your friends and with your employer. If my parents caught me with porn, well...

Is there anyone in this world besides me who you're actually afraid of?

Besides that, it's not the kind of message I want to send to a future wife. It drives away the kind of woman I actually want to marry, and attracts the kinds of people I don't want to associate with and the kind of attention I don't want. Porn itself induces habits which are not conducive to the kind of person I want to be.

I understand hedonism is the "in" thing right now, but there are still one or two of us who want to hold ourselves to some sort of higher standard. And this is suddenly a bad thing, now? Do not understand.

[Kdz]

Nobody's saying hedonism is bad, and nobody's saying that having standards is bad. The thing we're saying is, if you do it, why not admit it? What's the problem with admitting it?

Now, if you do something that you yourself are uncomfortable with and believe is wrong, that's another issue entirely.

[Lyinginbedmon]

Anyone who saw Memory Loss Live! last year knows me and my friends have no trouble discussing adult matters amongst one another, but it gets pretty wierd when one or more of our parents gets involved.

Not really wierd, actually, just very uncomfortable.

Neither me nor my brother have ever been approached by them on the topic of pornogaphy, but I don't think they'd have much of a fit at the idea.

[Alja-Markir]

What, so now it's a bad thing to not want to announce to everyone, "Hey, I like porn! I watch this and this and this, and I'm into this!"

It's not a bad thing to not announce that, but in a forum thread where that is the topic at hand, it seems odd to post without doing so. It's joining in a conversation but not taking an active part in it, just idly commenting.

Where I come from, porn can get you in trouble, both among your friends and with your employer. If my parents caught me with porn, well...

Is there anyone in this world besides me who you're actually afraid of?

I'm sorry that you live in a place and culture where you get treated poorly for possession of pornographic materials. I'm almost certain that they'd make no uproar at all if you went to watch an action or horrow film containing people being killed violently with lots of gore, but watching sexual acts is taboo despite sex being the single "vice" a person is most likely to commit. I find that kind of hypocracy a little depressing.

Besides that, it's not the kind of message I want to send to a future wife. It drives away the kind of woman I actually want to marry, and attracts the kinds of people I don't want to associate with and the kind of attention I don't want. Porn itself induces habits which are not conducive to the kind of person I want to be.

I think you're generalizing horribly. Lots of wonderful, reasonable, intelligent, loving, and morally upstanding people watch pornography. Being in tune with one's nature as a sexual creature is not a bad thing.

The trouble is there is a stigma attached to pornography, and people instantly assume that anyone watching such materials makes them a degenerate, a floozy, some sort of lusting monster that craves flesh and sin and debauchery. Thinking that way is stupid and dangerous.

Perhaps you need to rethink what kind of person you are trying to attract, or rethink what kind of message you think you are giving off. Plenty of women you would otherwise be attracted to watch or read or in some way consume pornography with no ill effect. Likewise, lots of great women would think no worse of you for watching it yourself.

As for porn inducing any sort of habits, good or bad, I believe you are invoking hearsay and rumor. Until you show me any sort of reliable study or data, I call shenanigans.

I understand hedonism is the "in" thing right now, but there are still one or two of us who want to hold ourselves to some sort of higher standard. And this is suddenly a bad thing, now? Do not understand.

I watch porn. I am not a hedonist. I'm a very selfless person, to the point of it being a problem at times. I hold myself to incredibly high standards, I insist on being the best person I possibly can. Realize that your assumptions of people are not always correct, that the tiny slice of the world and reality that you have experienced in your life is just the tip of the iceberg, and be humble enough to change your mind when you meet someone who breaks your expectations and challenges your understandings of the world.

~Alja~

[Yukikaze]

Nobody's saying hedonism is bad, and nobody's saying that having standards is bad. The thing we're saying is, if you do it, why not admit it? What's the problem with admitting it?

Now, if you do something that you yourself are uncomfortable with and believe is wrong, that's another issue entirely.

Just seems to me people who tend to be open about watching porn/sleeping around/not caring to watch their language tend to indicate that if I'm offended by that, this is somehow a problem with me that I need to fix by joining them in their activity.

That said, my co-workers were talking about clitoris piercings at work today. I was apparently the least disturbed person in the room.

[edit]And now I see that while I was posting my concession, Alja-Makir goes and actually makes a post doing what I'd been complaining about before, and actually gives validity to my prior (overreactive)post.

I find this turn of events amusing, to say the least.[/edit]

[Alja-Markir]

Just seems to me people who tend to be open about watching porn/sleeping around/not caring to watch their language tend to indicate that if I'm offended by that, this is somehow a problem with me that I need to fix by joining them in their activity.

[edit]And now I see that while I was posting my concession, Alja-Makir goes and actually makes a post doing what I'd been complaining about before, and actually gives validity to my prior (overreactive)post.

I find this turn of events amusing, to say the least.[/edit]

You, sir, are being arrogant and closed minded. You are lumping pornography watchers in with people of loose morals. You are not properly differentiating things which are entirely unrelated. Watching pornography does not lower anyone's morals. It does not make you more or less likely to adulter, or to swear, or anything. Those notions are entirely separate.

As for your "concession", you are not being ameliorating, you are not placating anyone by being noble, you are being ignorant and generalizing wildly.

~Alja~

[Yukikaze]

Pornography encourages behavior in me which I do not like. Is it so bad, then, that I do not take pride in having an addiction?

You will note that until just now, I have not said that pornography is bad. Even by my opening statement, I have not condemned pornography. I have indicated that I do not want to be known as someone who watches, views, or collects pornography, and I misinterpreted an earlier response to that as condemnation for not wanting thus. Then, while I was attempting not to overreact, you(Alja-Makir) write a referenced thesis as to why I am being a moralist bigot. I express amusement, and am condemned for such.

Is it any wonder, then, why don't usually bother trying to be civil?

In any case, I stand by my previous statement: being known for watching porn tends to drive away the kind of woman I would like to marry, and tends to attract the type of people I do not wish to associate with. This was one of the points you brought rebuttal to. Do you, then, claim to know the company I seek better than I do myself?

[Kdz]

[edit]And now I see that while I was posting my concession, Alja-Makir goes and actually makes a post doing what I'd been complaining about before, and actually gives validity to my prior (overreactive)post.

I find this turn of events amusing, to say the least.[/edit]

I do not believe Alja was in anyway saying that you needed to change, and that you should "join in the activities." I believe his message was that, like mine, if you do it, it shouldn't be a problem to admit it. He was merely saying that it's a sad state that people will think less of you for admitting you do something both perfectly legal and healthy. Note that I'm not saying you should watch porn, merely that there is no [nonmoral] reason to judge someone for watching porn.

Morals get to be a sticky(Ho ho! No pun intended ) issue, though, and that's not somewhere I really want to go. I personally feel that if they're not breaking the law, we should all stay out of their business, and if it happens to come out they do something(again, legal), we shouldn't think any less of them for it. The law is where I draw the line, and even then, for me personally, there are some laws that I don't really care if people break. But I think all people should draw the line, if nothing else, at the law, and not before it. Again, my opinion.

Alja was also suggesting you perhaps shouldn't be so quick to judge if someone does something that you don't approve of. Is it really that big of an offense? That's the most important question. Obviously if it's that big of a deal to you, there's nothing we could say. I think perhaps Alja overstated. After all, it wouldn't take much to turn this into an arguement on the moral standing of porn with statements like "Okay, so I wont judge porn addicts. Does this mean I should also not judge murderers?" and such. I don't want to go there, and I don't think anyone else does.

Alja ninja'd me with a post in response to yours, Yuki, and I think he has again overstated his arguement and I have little doubt you two are going to get into a stupid pissing match about it. If you don't, great. But seriously, both of you, as a general statement(no accusations), there is no need for arguement. Discussion, sure. Alja, maybe lay off the name calling? And, yes, Yuki, some of your statements are coming off as a little defametory towards porn watchers. No need for it here. But I'm not a mod, so what do I know?

Alja, to quote you real quick:

You are lumping pornography watchers in with people of loose morals. You are not properly differentiating things which are entirely unrelated. Watching pornography does not lower anyone's morals.

Something I've danced around a bit is that you aren't considering(much as Yuki is not considering) the other party's potential moral beliefs. Maybe, to him, people who watch porn are with lumping in with someone who swears or whatnot. They're his personal beliefs, and there's no reason to attack him.

Similarly, Yuki, as I've already addressed, there's no reason to start implying untoward things about Alja because he doesn't see porn viewing as a big deal. You guys feel differently about it, get over it.

I do think Alja has a point in that I am pretty sure that porn does not increase your potential to do any other "habits which are not conducive to the kind of person [you] want to be." At least not a causal relationship. Correlation does not equal causation! And even then, I'm not aware of any research that suggests in a correlational relationship between porn and any other "habits."

And no, it's not a bad thing to lack a want to announce your viewing of porn, your personal life is yours. I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with saying it, either. I do agree that the taboo is a bit arcane and pointless, but they doesn't mean you need to start flying it from a banner and screaming it from the hilltops. Do what you want, and if you want to tell me(when it comes up in appropriate conversation, but I'm against about any kind of random outburst involving personal matters. Pet peeve. I don't care, guys.), okay; if you don't, okay.

I think that's about all. TL;DR: Cut it out, kids! Learn to share or I'll ground you both!

[Kdz]

Pornography encourages behavior in me which I do not like. Is it so bad, then, that I do not take pride in having an addiction?

I've always had a hard time believing in addiction that isn't chemically induced. But I've never had issues with that. I don't deny that I am probably wrong. I'm not making light of the situation, I just don't have an experience with it, and the very idea is baffling to me. It's going to sound crass, and I mean nothing harmful by this, but I am forced to wonder: You do it, you don't want to, so stop? I am not claiming it is this easy, but it seems like it would be. I used to pick my nose hardcore as a kid, and I loved to do it. I was made to understand why it was bad, I quit. Pretty simple.

Again: I am not making light of an issue here, I just have no experience with how hard it could actually be. I don't know, but I also don't understand. I've never been there. And that is not meant to make me seem morally superior. I've just never had trouble stopping anything I didn't want to do.

I have indicated that I do not want to be known as someone who watches, views, or collects pornography, and I misinterpreted an earlier response to that as condemnation for not wanting thus. Then, while I was attempting not to overreact, you(Alja-Makir) write a referenced thesis as to why I am being a moralist bigot. I express amusement, and am condemned for such.

I fail to see where he condemned you. Again, the language he used was too harsh, something I have already admonished him for, and I can understand he was being a bit blunt, and that comes across as being more forceful. He was being condenscending, sure, but you often have a tendency to do the same thing. You both can do better.

In any case, I stand by my previous statement: being known for watching porn tends to drive away the kind of woman I would like to marry, and tends to attract the type of people I do not wish to associate with. This was one of the points you brought rebuttal to. Do you, then, claim to know the company I seek better than I do myself?

What kind of woman is there that you desire that literally all of "her kind" will be driven away by an admission of watching porn? I live in the fucking Bible Belt; I am surrounded by devoutly religious people and I know plenty of people who would not be affected by my porn watching or lackthereof. That's not to say there aren't those who would be turned off, but it is far from all.

Note: I only respond to Yuki's post here, not because I am only attacking him, but because I have already addressed the previous posts, and at time of writing this was the only one unaddressed. I am not focusing on one person here. I'm kinda trying to be a devil's advocate to both sides, because I think both of you are being a bit ridiculous and overreactive. Just a bit, though.

[Yukikaze]

Sorry Alex, I seem to have caused your intelligent discussion thread to devolve into yet another me-against-the-world free for all.

Maybe I should just leave.

[Kdz]

I feel the need to stress that I am a middle party inbetween you and Alja, Yuki. I may disagree with you on some things, but I most certainly have an easy time understanding where you're coming from, living in the area and having the family that I do.

I just know you guys can be more civil and intelligent than what you were, and I was encouraging that. Then I threw my opinions in somewhere in the middle.

And it's already been covered that there aren't many people with conservative views on this board, so that's gonna happen. Just the level of vitriol can certainly come down. I hate to use an old(HAH!) adage about argueing on the Internet, so I wont. But you know exactly what I'm talking about.

[edit] And for the record, my beliefs go as follows: If it's not illegal, I do not give half a fuck what you do. It's your fucking business. If the appropriate time comes up, and you tell me this, good for you. I still don't care. This is a free country(assuming we're in America or somewhere with similar laws), and you can do what you want. Law breaking is much more on a case by case basis, but at the very least if you're not breaking it I don't care. So there.

[CyberTractor]

Yuki, they're just trying to show you that watching porn and having loose morals don't necessarily correlate. People are just defending their stance which stands opposite to yours, not attacking you. Learn to differentiate the two.

If the woman you're looking for is someone who is prudent to the point where the mere mention of pornography or masturbation causes them to turn away in disgust, then good luck.

You're holding the humankind to a very high standard which I claim will never come to fruition.


PS: What line of work are you in where owning/watching pornography can get you in trouble...?

PPS: As KDZ said, you're in a minority here. So often times you'll find a lot of people here have a differing opinion than yours, and it may seem like they're ganging up on you, but its just because their numbers outweigh yours. Everyone just needs to stop being so defensive.

[Telaril]

I'm trying to type this in a non-angry way. We had a nice thread full of tolerance and intellectual discourse, and now reading it makes me sad.

I didn't see Tricia's quote as condemning people who don't watch porn, I think it was a logical question based on posts so far in this thread. Several people have made statements that seemed (at least to my reading) to imply that they hid their porn... rather than to imply that they don't look at it at all, or have any.

I think it's totally possible to state that you don't have porn on your hard drive and why and not be judged for it... you simply need to do it in a way that doesn't seem to malign those who do. This seemed to me a thread that was about trust... the trust that you could reveal something a bit personal, and possibly a bit embarrassing, and not be condemned for it.

I'm going to do that now.

I don't have any porn on my hard drive.

Now, I don't think anyone here is going to judge me or criticize me for this fact - because I approached it in a way that doesn't imply the opposing view is wrong. I'm not saying that it's wrong to have beliefs, but using them to imply someone is at fault they are opening up about something is... distressing.

[Kdz]

Now, I don't think anyone here is going to judge me or criticize me for this fact - because I approached it in a way that doesn't imply the opposing view is wrong. I'm not saying that it's wrong to have beliefs, but using them to imply someone is at fault they are opening up about something is... distressing.

This. This right here. Everybody read this, and get over the fact that people will disagree with you. They will do as they please, and, over the internet especially, you have no reason to start getting upset about what someone else believes that is not harming anyone else, or violating anyone else's rights. Even though you disagree, and even though they are admitting it publicly. Disagree, sure. But don't try to make out like your position is any better. It's not, it's different, and nothing else. There is no real right or wrong set in stone(save for religious ones, but DON'T START), just what we believe. No one opinion is more qualified or right than the other, in this case.

We all need to get the fuck over ourselves like we're all right. I admit I've done it on this board. Hell, I did it in this post. I'm working on it. Still, no need to get heated over something so goddamn stupid as this, when there are so many other issues that are actually worth this kind of attention and discourse.

Of course, it is quite ironic that I almost got mad about people getting mad about arguing. This reads as angry. I'm not. Like Matt.